Nefarian 10

90 Tauren Druid
9025
What's working for people?

We've tried multiple strategies and nothing seems to be panning out. After attaining 9/12 in less than 6 weeks, then proceeding to 10/12 after only 2 raids nights on Cho'gall and 2 raid nights on Al'Akir, we're after our 4th raid night on Nefarian, 50+ wipes, and frustration is setting in.

For phase 2, how many of you in 10-man worry about bringing Nef down another 10-20% before starting phase 3?

For phase 3: We've tried keeping Nefarian in the center and rotating him 180 degress every time the OT brings the adds near his head, We've also tried putting Nefarian facing the wall and having the OT path the adds back and forth across the opposite half of the room.

Input would be appreciated, it's starting to a little frustrating.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5710
messed up my post so I deleted it. what is killing your group? you seem to be doing everything right except i woudlnt tank neph in the center the add tank should be kiting the adds on the other side to half the middle of the room and neph should be facing the wall. Thats how we do it I know that add tanking is the toughest job cause thats my job on my warrior. I believe we push for the extra 10-20% during Phase 2 as well
Edited by Lifebloom on 6/10/2011 7:49 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Hunter
9670
Really this is an example of 'To each their own' as to the exacts. But I'll tell you how we essentially did P2 and P3.

P2 we basically just burned the adds. Completely ignoring Nef for 10man. It was a strain on healing, and not everyone had a Mirror yet for the resistance.

P3 we did a little differently. We had one tank have Nef in the center, and the second tank got the adds. Here's the second different part, the add tank kited/tanked the adds in a circle around Nef, slowly. He only moved as the fire did, and as Nef fired a shadowflame ball at them. Then, depending where the adds were, Nef was turned to be either facing in front of, or behind the adds.

The raid meanwhile sat on Nef's side (Since there is no min range for even a hunter to attack him). One healer followed the add tank at all times, the other healers sat on raid. This progressed until Nef died. At 20% we usually popped heroism, and a second healer stepped out to help the add tank. At this point we burned through Electrocutes.

Now at any time if the healers had to catch up, we stopped all DPS on Nef to allow for this.

The main way to get this strategy to work, is to have all 5 adds die ontop of one another in P1. Otherwise when they are rez'd in P3 they won't rez at the same time, thus they all die at different times. If they are stacked in a pile in P1 as they die, they get hit at the same time in P3, and it all goes smoothly.

Hope it helps, just have to find what works for you.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17080
Hey Surehoof,

I'll try to help out a bit, but since I don't know a whole lot about governing factors in your raid, I might say some stuff you know already, or just might not work for you because my assumptions aren't correct.

First, the decision to bring Nef down another 10-20% during Phase 2 is going to be variable on how your healing is doing. Typically, raid groups make the decision to crackle him during this phase because it shortens Phase 3, however if your healing is struggling very much and can't get this down, then you've got to make a decision between keeping at it until they learn to do so, or putting more strain on your add kiter in P3.

If you do decide to push another 10-20% during Phase 2, things that would help would be to hold DPS on Nef until the groups are topped off for the crackle. Hybrids can help with healing by either popping cooldowns (Tranquility, Divine Hymn, etc) or just by focusing on healing at critical moments. For platforms that are struggling with healing you can put a shaman of any spec and have him/her drop healing stream totem and healing rain. Since paladin aura mastery won't help against nature damage, hunters running nature resist can help platforms without shamans with their nature resist. Encourage your healers to mana dump if necessary since P2 healing will be very intense. Paladins should use their aura mastery in Phase 2 to help combat the shadowflame barrage damage or when people are just getting on the platform to reduce the fire damage from the magma.

In Phase 3, when everyone is stabilized it's a good idea to get DPS classes with mana CDs to use them (Hymn of Hope) if healers haven't asked for them already. It's also a good idea for non-healing druids to save their Innervates for healers - a thing that works well is to innervate early and innervate on CD on a designated healer that will be expected to go through a lot of mana.

In Phase 3, after having done both the center and the side positioning of Nef, I personally favor the center position. I would recommend changing your strategy a bit though from the 180 degrees every interval to constant rotation. That way, players are expecting the movement since it should be consistent (think Halion) and will know to keep moving. If you use this strat however, your Nef tank should be ready to run through his body and turn him 180 degrees if fire is in a bad spot. The raid, which is at Nef's side, should do the same if they have too much fire as well.

There are some merits to the side strat as well, I'll try to write them out a bit and hopefully it'll help you decide which one you prefer. The side strat is a LOT easier for the Nef tank because he/she just doesn't have to move, ever. I've found that the raid on Nef also has a lot more flexibility to move away from fire. However, the add tank is really cramped in this scenario in the sense that his kite path isn't as predictable as in the circular strat, and sometimes having to double back is dangerous.

Warriors are the best at add duty, followed by paladins. You might be tempted to perma-slow the adds, but this can be problematic sometimes if the adds are slowed and can't move out of a Shadowblaze in time. As you know, adds keep their energy and will continue to do much higher damage to your add tank if their energy gets reset while they are huge. I'm not sure exactly what you're doing in P3 so I can't go into more detail here. If your add tank is dying, one thing that will help is if he/she watches the energy bar of the adds. At 50 energy he/she should expect to be hit much harder and calling out for big heals on vent is a good way to let healers know to use quick heals until the adds fall over. In emergencies without tank personal cooldowns use Pain Suppression/Guardian Spirit/Paladin Devo Aura Mastery/Paladin Hand of Sac + personal Bubble to help reduce some of the damage.

Here is a video of instructional add kiting on Nef 10. it uses the center strat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Vt21OC3pE&feature=related

If you're having issues with crackles, plan cooldowns around problematic ones (i.e. Warrior Rallying Cry, Shaman Spirit Link Totem, Prot Pally Divine Guardian, Priest Divine Hymn). Call out crackles before they hit so healers can get everyone up.

Whew. Well, I hope I didn't say a bunch of stuff you knew already. Best of luck! :D
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90 Tauren Druid
9025
Thank you for all the help and advice. While a lot of it were things we already tried, some it was new and fresh and some of it used in different ways than we'd have tried.

I would say most of our P3 wipes were due to electrocutes killing the add tank.

A new raid week begins, and we're hoping for a kill on Tuesday night!
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90 Night Elf Druid
17080
Does your add tank have a Mirror of Broken Images? Some groups make all their members get Mirror for crackles, but it is especially nice on tanks since it's a good tanking trinket overall. If he doesn't and has enough TB commendations sitting around, score! :D

Phase 3 add tank healing is all about communication. Here is an addon that might help you guys. It announces when personal CDs are used:

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/flump.aspx

This way, the raidleader and/or healers will know when the add tank is out of personal cooldowns and need an external one so you don't end up wasting ones earlier when your add tank has big personal CDs up.

Best of luck on Tuesday! :D
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85 Human Death Knight
9820
06/12/2011 09:13 PMPosted by Lerrielin
Does your add tank have a Mirror of Broken Images? Some groups make all their members get Mirror for crackles


AAAAH SHE FORCED US TO DO IT. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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90 Night Elf Druid
17080
06/13/2011 04:39 PMPosted by Jacoste
Does your add tank have a Mirror of Broken Images? Some groups make all their members get Mirror for crackles


AAAAH SHE FORCED US TO DO IT. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!


FOR HEROIC YES BUT NOT FOR NORMAL >:O
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90 Tauren Druid
9025
Actually yes, this week my raiders have started saving back up to buy that at my insistence.
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