World of Warcraft®

This is taken directly from Wyrmrest Accord's forum, and was a collection of information from a variety of previous sources. The post on WrA's forum can be found at: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1127125439

If you like this, please vote it for sticky on our realm. I'm currently in the process of writing up a version for the Alliance. I also note the Horde version doesn't have a section for goblins, so I'll be writing one up as well.

If you're posting here before I put up a post indicating I'm done, kindly wait until you see that post, as there's a time buffer between posts to prevent spamming, and this'll take several posts. ;)

Quill’s Advice to Blood Elves/Those Who Hate Them

Original Post (Repost by Kalanii):

Your eyes are green. The only blue permitted is the frosty blue of a DK. There are no exceptions. The Sunwell reigniting did not make your eyes change color; fel taint is permanent. Orcs haven't gone back to brown skin.

You are not a High Elf. You are not a Half-Elf. High elves and half-elves are Alliance-based. The high elves have thrown in their lot with the Alliance, and the half-elves are half-human, and thus attached to the Alliance. If you are one of these two things and you are playing in the Horde, disguise it. If you are open about this, you will be exiled or, more likely, executed. Play it smart if you must play it at all.

You do not hold titles equal to major NPCs. You are not a Grand Magister, a Ranger-General, or a Blood Knight Matriarch. You are not an exception to this rule. Those people are the top of the chain of their respective organizations; you are not their equal. My advice? Be just a magister, a blood knight, or a ranger. Don't define yourself by your title. You can gain respect without a high rank.

Blood elves play a subtle game with their politics and power struggles. Most of the power struggles seen in Silvermoon from RPers are duels or RP fights; this would not be tolerated by the guard unless it was taken outside, but moreover, this is not terribly characteristic of the culture. They are crafty people who prefer techniques like blackmail and playing the long game, which comes of their relatively long lives. Stop drawing your weapons and blasting people with your spells and start learning how to wound with words. Be patient. Be clever.

Cleverness isn't something you can fake, mind, so if being subtle and working intrigue isn't something you feel up to doing, get out of the Silvermoon scene or don't try to play the sort of bloodelf who is into power struggles. A blunt bloodelf would not get very far in their culture.

Openly talking about throwing down the government or otherwise defying the laws of decency would not happen without consequences. This is more of a general rule for RP, but it happens a lot in Silvermoon so I'm putting it here. You need to acknowledge your environment. Just because the guards won't actually react in game doesn't mean they wouldn't react in lore. We're here to play in the Warcraft world, and that includes using your imagination as to what would happen if you took such actions. Understand that the guards would be after you for stabbing someone if you did it on the street or in an establishment, and that even if you "evaded" them, there would be a warrant for your arrest.

It's cool to claim to be a noble, but don't go overboard. There were no doubt tons of trumped-up families among the sin'dorei. Chances are good that you weren't a MAJOR noble. Feel free to have the attitude, just understand that you don't have the influence. Don't expect the guards to jump to your beck and call. It's fine to pay off a government official, but you wouldn't get away with murder, etc. Show some judgment and restraint.

Work on playing with the blood elven themes. It's so easy to gravitate toward blood elves because they're pretty. But have you actually thought about who they are? Consider: you are a member of a long-lived people who had a fairly idyllic existence. Chances are quite good you were not only alive but were an adult during the Second War, and you fought against or at least felt the sting of the vicious trolls.

Yet nothing was as bad as the absolute disaster that happened some seven or eight years ago when the Scourge plowed through your city. You probably lost someone close to you either there or in the subsequent crushing of Dalaran, which also housed many elves. And on the heels of having so many dead (and so many turned undead), the Sunwell perished, driving your already battered people into throes of withdrawal, driving them to do unspeakable things. Those who managed to control their addiction -- barely -- and feed it on the proffered fel crystals are the sin'dorei we know today.

That's not something you recover from in a year; possibly not even seven. You still likely came out of that changed. The theme of the blood elves has always been decadence in the face of loss, as they were introduced. You used the trivialities of life as well as your indulgences to mask the grief. And then, after finally seeing some measure of hope in Kael'thas' promised land and teachings, you were struck by your king's betrayal to the very beings whose interference drove your ancestors from their home.

Blood elves focus on the trivialities and on rigid order and rank definitions because doing otherwise might actually make them take a good, hard look at the past seven years and all they've lost. Keep that in the back of your mind, because that is what defines blood elves as a people.

Those Who Hate Blood Elves:

Acting superior to you is in keeping with their culture. You are either a green caveman, a smelly cow, a rotting corpse, or a skinny and just-as-primitive version of their hated neighbors. You are within your rights to be infuriated by this in-character, but don't get bent out of shape because they're following how their race is written.

Blood elves want people to think they're important. There are exceptions to this, but your average elf will absolutely flaunt any sort of noble title he might have at you, and that's perfectly fine. Most elves would claim some sort of nobility or something, anything, that might give them an authoritative edge.

Speaking in Thalassian around you is probably meant to be rude, but it's lore-compliant. At the time WoW began, Horde races had four years to learn Orcish. Blood elves have had two. Chances are all but the most dedicated to integrating with the Horde -- something they're not too keen on, as a general rule -- prefer to speak in their native tongue.

Conflict does not make them bad. You are a stinking member of the Horde. Chances are quite good they will disagree with you on something, and do it in a manner that makes you want to punch them. This is not bad RP. This is in keeping with the tension between the races. Go with it.

And lastly...

Playing a Blood Elf does not make them a bad role-player. We've all had bad experiences with bad bloodelf RPers, and we have them because they're 1) pretty, and 2) popular. Prior to blood elves' inclusion, Alliance had the lion's share because Horde wasn't pretty. When you have a pretty race, you're going to have a lot of Sues.

That said, just because some elves have soured you on it does not mean you should treat all other elves with contempt or ignore them. I can understand not wanting to expose yourself to frustration, but reading an RSP can usually give you an inkling of what to expect. There are a lot of decent blood elves out there who have the right idea about the lore and could give you an interesting RP experience.

So You Want to RP an Orc by Quill

Original Post (Cenarion Circle Repost by Brynnara)

A while ago, I did a writeup on common Blood Elf missteps and it was received decently enough. Since I find myself caffeinated and unable to sleep, I figure I might as well fill my time with something, so here's what to consider if you're playing or are looking to play an orc.

You are not a member of an Orcish Clan. You might have been, at one point. They existed up until the end of the Third War, when the New Horde was formed and the clans were quietly done away with. Some of the organizational names remain: the Frostwolf defenders in Alterac and the Shattered Hand assassins in Orgrimmar, for example, but these are old names given to evolved groups. The only clans that still exist are clans that function outside the body of the New Horde in which you're playing by default. If you want to identify with one of these clans (such as the Dragonmaw, which is particularly pertinent to Cataclysm) that's your prerogative, but understand that clan recognition and behavior has been out of the Horde orcs for years now.

Basically: it's okay to identify with a clan that once existed. It's okay to consider yourself a member of that clan until the day you die. It's not okay to think that matters to anyone official in the Horde, because as far as they're concerned, there are no clans anymore within the Horde itself.

You were not born in Orgrimmar, Durotar, or anywhere on Kalimdor... ...unless you happen to be seven years old or younger.

More than any other race, your age dictates what you've experienced. This seems a sweeping statement, but orcs really have had a tumultuous time of it for the past few decades, and it's important to understand what picking an age for your orc means for what they've seen. A quick guide, and keeping in mind that orcs are considered of fighting age at twelve:

40+ -- Born on Draenor. Raised normally, in the old orcish ways. The events with Ner'zhul and Gul'dan took place 28 years ago, so factor that into your background.

34-39 -- Born on Draenor. Raised in the old ways. Likely magically aged by warlocks to be of physical age twelve 28 years ago in order to bolster the ranks of the forming Horde. (yes, this is official lore, revealed in Rise of the Horde.)

28-33 -- Born on Draenor, too young to be in the forming Horde at the time. How they crossed over to Azeroth is up to you, provided it was at one of the times when the Dark Portal was open and orcs were coming out of it (27-19 years ago, or one or two years ago if Mag'har.)

27-20 -- Born on Azeroth, in the middle of crazed war among demon blood-fueled orcs. Not the most peaceful childhood ever.

19-7 -- Born on Azeroth after the Second War was over. Likely born in an internment camp, as that's where most of the orcs were at the time. If so, subject to human ministrations and potential slavery. (also, yes, Thrall is just about that young.)

You should regard Orcish politics with the proper perspective. Sounds weird, doesn't it? But this is actually one of the biggest mistakes I see orcs making lately, and that is mindless devotion to Thrall.

Thrall is the sort of character we're meant to identify with as players. He's kind, willing to give everyone a chance to redeem themselves, and can see past racial prejudices to the individual. That's the sort of thing we look for in a hero as fans of fantasy.

But there's one thing that Thrall isn't, and that's very Orcish. This wasn't true during the Third War, but his behavior since has been somewhat dubious. He's kept up relations with a human and has been letting practically everyone into the Horde. More recently, there was the Wrathgate debacle. Thrall may be an orc, but he was raised by humans, and his actions lately haven't fit the title of Warchief he currently bears.

The campaign in Northrend is meant to show that there is a faction of orcs, such as Agmar and Krenna, who think Thrall's way of doing things has gotten them nowhere. They, and those like them, have thrown in their lot with Garrosh Hellscream, the son of a hero and absolute terror on the battlefield. He shows many of the qualities of his father, and they have faith he'll lead them to glory. And here's the kicker: as of right now? He has. The campaign in Northrend is done. They've returned victorious and their Warchief had spit all to do with the victory or the fighting. That's not the way of the orcs, and that's bad news.

That said, there are orcs who support Thrall, and you could well be one of them. But do so for Orcish reasons: your admiration of Durotan, your belief that the warlike traditions of your people should be scaled back, your appreciation of his devotion to shamanism, etc. But remember, respect, and play as if there's another faction out there that's gaining strength, because right now, that's canon.

Consider what demons and fel magic mean to you. For a warlock, obviously, they mean power, a means to an end. But for orcs in general, demonic magic is what brought your people to become little better than animals and fight in a war that wasn't your own. Fel magic is why your skin is green and why so many of your family and former clan are likely dead. Many races can claim disgust for fel taint, but orcs are one of the few that have visceral personal experience with demons, and that should come into play at some point. This is a major reaction point and orcs are surrounded by it every day, so it's good to clarify.

If you're not a peon, you're not an idiot. It's very common for newcomers to the Warcraft mythos to fall into the peon mode of talking, as those are some of the most quoted orcs of the series in popular culture. Moreover, those who might be fans of the Warhammer mythos might apply the greenskin philosophy to Warcraft orcs. However, the fact is that orcs are as intelligent as your average human, and have all the complexities that brings.

The exception to this is the peon caste, where the really stupid tend to find themselves. They're considered unfit for anything besides manual labor in orc society. (Thanks be to Gazruk for reminding me.)

Your surname is fairly specific. Don't just pick two words to string together for your orc's surname. The surname is bestowed upon an orc after they reach maturity, and is almost always related to some deed they've accomplished. They are rarely passed down from parent to child; generally only if they're carrying on the parent's legacy in some way. This name is not locked in place, either; if they do something more momentous, something they'll be remembered by, the surname can change.

Let's look at examples. When Telkar Doomhammer died, Orgrim took up the legendary weapon and became Orgrim Doomhammer. Characters such as Garrosh Hellscream and Dranosh Saurfang carry on the legacy of their fathers as well; they haven't done anything to distinguish themselves, but they follow their fathers' footsteps as best they can (or did, in one case). Heck, Jorin Deadeye, son of Kilrogg, was true to the Bleeding Hollow name, because one of his eyes has been put out. (Thanks be to Hylaudius for asking.)

Playing A Troll by Marchais:

I started typing up some long-winded thing, but decided keeping it short (like the format Quill previously used, which I found quite effective) was a better idea to keep from coming across as some kind of strict rulebook that roleplayers should never defy. I can't say I have the same reputation as Quill, but hopefully this will prove helpful anyway. I'll add to this anything anyone else contributes that looks well-thought out(not necessarily that I agree with, and I will do my best to be fair.)

You were not born on the Echo Isles. You might have been born on that island in the South Seas, or in Stranglethorn. I honestly cannot find a date as to when the Darkspear were kicked out of Stranglethorn Vale. However, I know for certain that they only moved to the Echo Isles within the past couple of years, meaning any Troll born there would be a young child, not an adventurer or soldier.

You do not need an accent. I know a lot of people stumble over this one, it's hard to type believably in an accent you don't actually have. Actually, it's hard to type in an accent period. But there is no actual need for you to have one. If you don't feel like you can do the accent well, then just leave it out. No accent is better than a bad accent that no one can understand.

Playing other tribes. This one is tricky because while I believe it is perfectly reasonable, I know there are plenty of people who don't. For some tribes or species, it would be easier than others(a Forest Troll could fit into the Horde much better than, say, an Ice Troll.) But, before you do decide to play a non-Darkspear, you should always look up some information on your intended tribe. Try and figure out how they would fit into the Horde, what their relations would likely be with other races, particularly the Darkspear. A Forest Troll, for example, could be seen by Darkspear with maybe a bit of rivalry; their two empires never really got into serious warfare when they were in control, and after their respective falls they didn't have anything to do with each other at all. At the least, another Troll is better than something else. To an Orc, a Forest Troll could be viewed as either an acceptable comrade(they were once allies, and the Revantusk Forest Trolls are still allies) or as a cowardly traitor because of Zul'jin's refusal to rejoin the Horde. To a Blood Elf, of course, you'd be hated.

The gods are selfish and everywhere. The Troll concept of religion seems founded on the ideas that spirits have their own goals and aims and are regularly involved in the daily lives of mortals. Though many of the old practices have been forced underground in the presence of the Horde, it's difficult for a people to suddenly ignore what was once a key aspect of all their lives(especially in the context of Warcraft, where spirits can and do have tangible effects on the world.) Few Trolls worship their gods because of a sense of higher duty; they believe their gods and spirits are imperfect and fallible, but are a hell of a lot stronger than they are and, hopefully, stronger than their enemies. Sacrifices are made and rituals performed to make sure the spirits lend their aid to your people, and not someone else's.

War isn't civilized. Their view on gods and spirits probably transfers pretty well to their view on warfare; look out for number one. War is about winning, killing the enemy so the enemy doesn't kill your people. Almost every Troll, regardless of tribe, has seen their people constantly besieged by enemies from all directions, due in at least some part to their people's own hatred of others. Duty and honor aren't concepts completely unknown to the Trolls, but in an environment where even your own kind are potential enemies, there's little room to foster such notions. Trolls don't really seek glory through combat the way Orcs do. To them, war has been a means to an end, be that security or new territory, and for the last several thousand years Trolls have just been trying to win back the lands they used to hold.

You don't have to hate Blood Elves. Although it is very likely that you do. Blood Elves certainly won't appreciate you very much, given how similar you are to their hated enemies, the Forest Trolls. That, and in addition Trolls seem to be naturally adverse to things that are really different, and the Blood Elves are completely different. It will mostly come down to individual personality.

Dead and Loving It: Forsaken Roleplaying Tips by Needleteeth

Inspired by the recent reposts of Quill's little guides, as well as the awesome discussion prompted by Marchais' troll RP post, I decided I ought to whip up a little something for everyone's favorite deadies - the Forsaken! This is mostly a few lore points for beginners, people with questions and I hope to prompt some discussion. This is all coming out of my own knowledge or interpretation of lore - if you disagree speak up! Let's get something rolling. That said....

You don't have to be bitter and angry - but you probably are. Consider this: everything your character had, they lost. Their house burned down, their family got killed or scattered all over Azeroth, their dog is probably dead, they were forced to help destroy their own kingdom and they were made slaves, prisoners in their own bodies. They haven't caught many breaks. For most people this translates over into feeling rather angry about the whole thing. There are exceptions of course. Some Forsaken have convinced themselves undeath is better than life ever was (true or not) and some simply see undeath as a "second chance". That said, consider your character's previous life as compared to now.

Emotions just aren't what they used to be. You're dead. Your heart doesn't beat, none of your organs really function and you don't really have blood pumping in your veins. Half of our emotional responses are based on physical cues. Our hearts race, our adrenaline gets pumping, we feel a tightness in our chest or that raw feeling at the back of your throat when you're about to cry. Forsaken don't really feel that. They know they feel angry or sad or happy or what have you - but half of the sensation is gone. It's different.

You're probably loyal to Sylvanas. Most Forsaken look to Sylvanas as a leader and the one who freed them from their slavery under the Lich King, whether that's true or not. Almost all of them have devoted themselves to her and her cause with fanatical fervor. There are always exceptions, though. Leonid, over at the Argent Dawn, and the small group of defectors to name a few. Just be aware that if you decide to start ranting about how Sylvanas is evil in front of other Forsaken, they're probably going to tear you limb-from-limb.

The Light abandoned you. The prevailing attitude amongst the Forsaken is that the Light abandoned them to their undead fate and thus no longer deserves worship or respect. While some individuals may quietly revere it on the side, it is fairly unacceptable, socially. Other than that, figure out if you even have a religion anymore - not everyone belongs to the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow. This leads into our next point:

The Light burns. Rather self-explanatory. The Light will literally burn you. While Forsaken can be healed by it, it's much more akin to taking a red-hot iron and cauterizing a wound. They can also use it, although I imagine it causes great physical pain.

You don't like other races and the other races don't like you. The Forsaken, as a general rule, don't like the living. They're living, walking, talking reminders of everything the Forsaken once had and will never have again. This engenders a certain amount of bitterness and hatred. For their part, the living don't like the Forsaken much better - they're walking, talking corpses who tried to punch both the Alliance and Horde's tickets at the Wrathgate. There will always be distrust and suspicion between the two groups. I do think it's reasonable for a Forsaken to have a close, living friend. Individuals are individuals, after all.

Forsaken only have each other. The Forsaken might squabble amongst themselves from time to time, disagree, even fight, but when push comes to shove and their backs are to the wall, they'll lock shields with other Forsaken and stand against the storm. After all, other Forsaken are the only ones they can truly depend on in the world.

You're probably an ex-human. The vast bulk of Forsaken are former Lordaeronian citizens - soldiers, farmers, merchants, minor nobility, whoever happened to be around when the Scourge swept through. It's why all of the Forsaken models look human! It is reasonable to have an undead High Elf - they should be rather rarer, of course. If you're not Lordaeronian, how did you become Forsaken? Were you in from Stormwind visiting relatives at the wrong time? An Alterac expatriate busily plotting for a glorious return when your plans suddenly became meaningless?

Human flesh is delicious.

Addendum re: Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, also by Needleteeth

The Cult of the Forgotten Shadow is not a church. The Cult is a series of beliefs regarding the Shadow and the various tenets thereof. There is no organized hierarchy and no priest or preacher of the Cult can truly claim to have authority over another - it's simply something to take solace from and believe in in the absence of the light. What they all agree on is the three virtues: Respect, Tenacity and Power.

The universe is a physical manifestation of will and everyone can change the universe if they have the willpower and necessary gumption to change it. The unvierse is shaped by individuals - there is no overarching, all encompassing power that oversees everything. The three main virtues follow as such:

Respect: To ignore, degrade or otherwise insult the universe is to disrespect the personal power of all those around you (who are also trying to shape the universe). Only a fool insults his superiors, however, so respect is a way of getting into their good graces. It's also a good way to prevent destruction or harm to your person. Respecting your inferiors, I believe, naturally follows, as they're less likely to turn on you or turn their wills against your own (as amusing as their pathetic attempts would be, muahahaha).

Tenacity: The followers of the Forgotten Shadow do not give up. You may only be one person trying to change the universe, perhaps competing with thousands (if not millions) of others. That does not mean throw in the towel. That means keep trying until you get it right. Relentless pursuit of your goals is ideal. This does not mean you have to be obvious about it, however.

Power: The most difficult virtue to obtain. The pursuit of power is necessary in all Forsaken unlives (at least according to the adherents of the cult). However, move too quickly and you'll end up being destroyed for attempting to master too much at once. Lag behind and you're a failure. To simply sit and allow yourself to waste away, to squander your potential means that you are little better than a Scourge drone. Once power is obtained, all else follows.

There are two other virtues that are not always agreed on in the Cult.

Death: A Forsaken should seek to master death, both over him/herself and over others. Kill too readily and without reason and you may be put down like a rabid animal or you may be weak and exhausted should a larger threat arise. Show too much mercy and old enemies may take advantage of your weakness. Find a balance between the two extremes.

Compassion: Not as contradictory as you might think! This virtue applies to other Forsaken alone and ties into one of the points made in my first post - Forsaken have only each other in the cold and lonely world. Assist them, show them compassion, for they are your brothers and sisters in death.

There's more information at WoWpedia, here: http://www.wowpedia.com/Cult_of_the_Forgotten_Shadow

The Shu'halo and You by Kurshaw

Of all the guides that have been previously posted by various members of our community, I’ve noticed a Horde race missing from our sticky: the Tauren. A previous post made by a wonderful player, Wailakee from MoonGuard-US, combined all known lore about Tauren into one post. However, to play a Shu’halo one must also remember a few important details that often times go over looked by just about all of us. So in the vein of all the other guides out there, I would like to submit my guide “The Shu’halo and You.”

Tauren have been nomadic for 10,000 years: Before the sundering, the centaur were culled by the Quel’Dorei as stated in lore surrounding Desolace. However, once the sundering happened the centaur went unchecked. For this reason, we can assume that the Tauren began feeling the brunt of centaur expansion only a short time after the sundering.

What this means for you --As people who have great historic tales of nomadic life and hunting, they would not be quick to jump into a sedentary life. Especially true for the spirited tauren, the need to keep their hooves moving would be strong enough to form large herds for the purpose of travel. Many tauren would agree that a permanent life is a safe option for the sick, very young, and very old. However, wanderlust would still exist, and that is something only several generations of stationary living would diminish.

The Earthmother is everything: The tauren do not just worship the Earthmother as a deity, but as anything and everything that has ever existed. They consider the twins, Mu’sha and An’she, to be her eyes that watch over her children. The earth is called by her name, and when the tauren hunt they thank the Earthmorther for providing the game. The Earthmother is a guide, “Earthmother guide you”, as well as a protector, “Earthmother watch over you.” The tauren know that she is both benevolent and wrathful, and do what they can to maintain her eternal balance. For a tauren, the Earthmother is the reason anything exists at all.

War is never the right answer, it just is: The people understand that war touches everyone, and that the wildlife and surrounding landscape are affected as well. The lumber and ore needed to secure a victory against the Alliance destroys the Earthmother, and the tauren feel this burden. As a whole, the tauren do not support all out war against the Alliance, but when push comes to shove they will put everything on the line to save their people. The tauren people are like a sleeping giant, calm and gentle in slumber but once awoken a thunder of anger and power.

This does not mean that your tauren must be a passive thinker, though a good majority might lean towards idealism. Peace is only maintained through the awareness of battle, and many tauren are going to be sure that they have the forces and strength necessary to uphold the peace.

Shamanism is not just a path for tauren, but a way of life: The ancestors exist in everything the tauren do, from death rites to simply hunting to provide meat for the herd. Tauren are always giving respect to their ancestors and honoring them daily. Every evening in Thunder Buff [Zangen Stonehoof] lights a ceremonial fire and gives thanks to the ancestors. The third rite of passage for tauren is a quest that asks you to find and commune with a tauren spirit. A common farewell used by tauren is “Ancestors watch over you.” These are behaviors every tauren can and do perform each day without being of the shamanistic path.

Shamanism is not just for shaman -- The Spirit Champion, the Holy Strider, and the Spirit Walker are all tauren special classes that incorporate the shamanism path with another: the warrior, the hunter, or any tauren attuned to the spirits. Not every tauren is a shaman, but every tauren -knows- shamanism.

To be a tauren is to be a hunter: The final rite of passage for every tauren player is to hunt the great Kodo, Arra'chea. The mark of the hunter is the highest honor given to the tauren people and a lot of ancestral pride is given to the hunt and those who have completed the tasks. Holy Striders, the elite of tauren society are, by definition, hunters. It is very likely that a tauren who does not know how to hunt would probably live with a great deal of shame within the tauren society.

Thunder Bluff is roughly 10 years old: In order for your tauren to have been born on Thunder Bluff, you would need to be 10 years old or younger. This also means that, unless this is true, your tauren was born into a nomadic herd that experienced Centaur disruption and the conglomeration of tribes through Cairne Bloodhoof. It is up to your character to decide if this new way of life is a good or bad change.

Reserved for Goblins

And I'm done!

I always love reading these racial guides. WrA has a lot of nice resources over on their forums.

I really needed this, actually, thank you so much!

Excellent, thanks for reposting this here. :)
Wish your section on goblins was done, since this is my first one, but I guess what I dig out of Wowpedia will do for now~
But still, excellent guide, and yay for the original posters!