World of Warcraft®

I have too feel like people are spouting off for one main reason, they like to !@#$%. There are a few generic complaints that I hear quite often and I would like to take a shot at addressing these as succinctly as possible.

1 “Pandas make no sense.”
 Pandarians were at least part of the lore before the WoW mmo was created. Also, if it were not Pandarian, who the heck would you choose to be a playable race? Nagas, murlocs, furbogs, kobolds…..

2 “Pandas are going to attract the wrong player base of “kids””.
 This argument is just silly to anyone that thinks about it. If the cute and cuddly panda is going to attract a new audience they are going to likely be close to the current demographic of a very male heavy population. If a new male player between the ages of 12 to 17 is choosing a race that his friends are going to see; do you think he is going to choose a troll or a panda? If anything, if the Pandarian are perceived as cute and cuddly it would attract a more “not testosterone driven” type of player. That is if it were to attract a new type of player to the game. (which it won’t)

3” I want something new but I don’t want it to ruin the experience I am having now.”
 I am a vanilla veteran who recalls fondly the times of old. WoW is not even close to the same game. An extremely large percentage of the base of people angry about pandas are the same needy people that hated troll dungeons and the “rehashed content”. Make up your mind! IF you want new things accept that not everyone will like everything and if you want stuff to stay the same enjoy the nostalgia of the bringing the old into the present.

4” WoW is just trying to create subs be catering to Asian sacred archetype of the panda.” -Also opposite but answerable with the same information. “WoW is going to lose Asian subs because there are insulting the Asian sacred archetype.”
 Pandas are not gods, they are a national treasure of an animal that is regal, not godly any more than a snake or a hawk is godly. If someone made a cartoon movie about a pit fighting bald eagle, yes there would be backlash by a very few in the US; but as long as the eagle was not set on fire, or poorly betrayed, the movie would be fine in the states. I would even venture to say it would be popular if the eagle drove a fast car and punched terrorists in the balls. People just assume too much crap about religion and other cultures without having any real basis in reality.

There are of course many more, but these complaints seem to crop up the most.

In all honesty, I'd rather have Ethereals, and more of the Twisting Nether.

I have found that, whenever I ask, I find two core complaints you have not listed:

A fear of really, really annoying sounds, such as those portrayed by the Pandaren Monk companion pet.

Just not able to abide by the fact that an inside joke got turned into the next expansion, creating content rather than pursuing content that was otherwise hinted at.

I have to admit to quite a bit of /facepalming to the latter, but I look forward to it because, dang it, I'll take new vegetation graphics where I can get them. This expansion looks fun, as do monks.

Additionally, though, the modern, rather than historical, culture of China would probably take offense to the Pandaren race. It's ok though; they weren't a target audience, I imagine.

Sir, while I feel you express the proper concerns, your reasoning is flawed. Observe:

1. "Pandas make no sense." A panda makes perfect sense - in fact, with the proper education and grasp of Orcish a panda very well might make a name for himself among the greatest of statesmen. The people, however, who think "pandas make no sense" work as the cogs of a great, societal machine that keeps the white man - the white man with black spots, that is - down, and their misinformed, shallow opinion forms a vicious cycle, preventing the panda from making sense. Given the opportunity, this wonder of nature could shine.

2. "Pandas are going to attract the wrong player base of kids." Pandas will, indeed, attract children. This is part of their charm, and it can effectively be used to the Horde's advantage. Imagine unleashing a bloodthirsty, ravenous pack of pandas upon Stormwind, or Ironforge, or even - my personal favorite - Darnassus. The children would flock to the cuddly panda, and find themselves undone, devoured, and dead in its maw. They very well might attract the wrong "player base" - but we, my Horde brothers, can use this to our advantage. The future generation of Alliance will fall, to our deceivingly adorable new allies.

3. "I want something new but I don’t want it to ruin the experience I am having now.” I want Ashenvale razed to the ground, and the timber of its oaks used to build my summer home. We don't get everything we want in life. But if the inclusion of the panda means a bulky, powerful, wise, bloodthirsty ally against the Alliance - !

...wait...what do you MEAN, multi-faction? TREASONOUS ******* - !

4. "WoW is just trying to create subs be catering to Asian sacred archetype of the panda," or "WoW is going to lose Asian subs because there are insulting the Asian sacred archetype."

Seriously, breaking from character, I agree wholeheartedly with Invis' thoughts here. I think people need to lighten up, and enjoy the game for what it is: a game. I'm sure that once the Pandaren as a race come into the game, with sufficient thought and effort being placed in their lore, their culture, and their style, we will see a new, dynamic race that will bring something new to the Warcraft table.

Racial demographics or cultural demographics have been mimicked in WoW before - Trolls and Tauren, anybody? Everyone loves the Tauren and Trolls, but they arguably have deep roots in existing cultures. Had they, as races, been cried out foul because of the potential of cultural implications think of all of the brilliant story arcs, lore, and fun we'd be missing out on now. Eventually, once we've had a chance to meet our new panda brethren, I'm sure we'll come to see them with the same fondness we see other WoW races with.

Will they be the butt end of the occasional joke? Undoubtedly, given WoW's sly gift in quest text and in lore for satire, parody, and humor. It's one of the things I love about this game. Assuming that it's all done in good fun, however, and that proper cultural sensitivity is exercised I don't see this becoming a problem, at all.

The people who are complaining the most about Mists of Pandaria are having to really reach on complaints, considering we literally have nothing more than pre-alpha talent sets, some unpopulated and pre-alpha (if late-alpha to Friends & Family Beta quality) environment videos, and early indications of pandaren class capabilities and racial powers.

Let's not forget that worgen at one point had the ability to skin without using a knife, and were in the early parts going to have an actual mount that was some nightmarish pig thing. Me, I like Running Wild a lot better. More worgen-ish as far as I'm concerned.

The worgen are a perfect example of just how much things can change between a Blizzcon expansion announcement and the actual release of the expansion. But if you don't like worgen, we can also point to Wrath of the Lich King; several Death Knight abilities made it out of beta and had to later be removed (like an Unholy DK's ability to self-rez as a ghoul; Arena players griped so much Blizzard caved).

Or how about Burning Crusade? For a couple of months after blood elves' announcement as the new Horde race, we had nothing more than "reliable rumors" that we were getting draenei for the Alliance.

If someone doesn't want to play a pandaren, nothing is forcing them to. The complaints on the General forum are by and large the same thing they always are: the "issue du jour" with a lot of bandwagon hoppers who feel comfortable railing against Blizzard because they can see they'll have support. If they were to take a stand and be torn apart on those forums, you can bet they'd remain quiet.

As it stands right now, the Monk class doesn't do a lot for me thematically. It just doesn't seem all that interesting, nowhere near as interesting as the Death Knight concept was to me when Blizzard first announced it. But that's fine: Priests don't interest me either, and while that may have stopped me from playing one (I can't get past 9th level without wanting to claw my eyeballs out), it isn't an objective aspersion cast on the class itself.

When you add in that there's a highly-anticipated new MMO coming from a game designer who's known for quality second possibly only to Blizzard (or in some folks' eyes, surpassing Blizzard), you've got lots of people who don't think very well and believe that's more than enough to once again ring World of Warcraft's death knell.

Me, I see tons of Tyrael's Charger mounts flapping about Stormwind, which tells me there's more than a few people who are still entertained enough by WoW to commit for a year. I imagine it's likewise over in Orgrimmar, and on other realms. This game is far from done, but you can't tell that to the wannabe somethingawful.com rejects who think poorly-conceived (and spelled) one-liners and cyber-bullying amount to intelligent discourse on this game's forums.

I didn't play the early Warcraft games, because I suck at RTS. It's fun as a genre, I'm just not good at it, and quickly lose interest in that much micromanagement. It's probably why I liked Dragon Age 2 a lot better than the first one: I didn't have to worry as much about gearing out my party in the sequel, which let me focus on my main character.

But I recognize the place pandaren have in Azeroth's history. I also recognize that aside from Chen Stormstout's appearance in the previous game, the pandaren mythology is largely unwritten, which gives Blizzard a lot more room to write new stuff without would-be curators of WoW Lore (as though anything we say could trump Blizzard; Red Shirt Guy from Blizzcon 2010 notwithstanding, it's Blizzard's Lore, and if they want to retcon something, it's their story and what they want trumps what we think "should be") getting up their rear cavities about it.

Sure, the game's going to attract children. Sure, many are going to come in because pandas are "cute" (a mischaracterization if I've ever seen one; panda bears are capable of being incredibly vicious). I don't mind. They aren't going to be in my guild's Vent, and if I happen to wind up in a Dungeon Finder or Raid Finder with a 12 year-old who negatively makes their presence known, it's a right click then a left click for me to leave, and go do something else for 30 minutes while my debuff ticks away.

In short, nothing to see here.

Anyone who is bothered by "cute" should have left the first time they saw a female gnome. Blizzard has a history of cute. I don't really see how this is a huge deviation. This is not meant to be an incredibly serious gothic emo game, but it does have pockets of darkness for those who wish to seek it out. I for one like variety in mood/tone, and WoW is one of the best games for that.

I agree with Ragefang. What it comes down to is that people are seriously jumping to conclusions based on only a handful of things. Being a mid-vanilla veteran (I've been in this game in some fashion since just before the opening of the original Zul'Gurub, in September 2005 - yeah, not like you pre-release beta testers and first-day players, but it still counts to the young whippersnappers, heh), I've seen this cycle often enough to, frankly, be tired of all the whining.

For instance: Outland was decried as too sci-fi for Warcraft (the whole "spaceship" concept with Tempest Keep and Oshu'gun particularly). Both sides condemned the blood elves as being "too gay", and wondering why added to the Horde. And people hated the idea of Alliance shamans and Horde paladins because they wanted the unique nature to the factions. So on and so forth. Yet the blood elves became (and in some realms, still are) the most-played race in the Horde. The same with worgen for Alliance - we all heard the "Team Jacob" jokes, and people still hate the fact that female worgen "look like demented chihuahuas", to quote one post I'd read. And yet the worgen, like the blood elves, seem to be quite numerous.

There were plenty who complained about the main villains, too. Illidan wasn't seen enough in Burning Crusade, except toward the end of the Netherwing chain. On the other end of the spectrum, the Lich King was seen too much, so much so that people condemned him as a Scooby-Doo villain. Deathwing was supposed to be somewhere in between, and to a degree he is - if people even bother to notice. Others also point out that Deathwing, for all the power he wields (the state of Azeroth today is because of him), is nothing more than a pawn, whereas we knew in Northrend that the Lich King was the master.

The fact of the matter is, nothing really changes. People will still complain about whatever comes their way. Many fans of Chen Stormstout have wanted pandaren as a playable race in WoW since the beginning. Now that we're getting it, it seems to be nothing but "childish" and "Kung Fu Panda", the latter of which I'm REALLY getting sick of hearing. Granted, it seems the "modern" pandaren look takes a page from these movies - which, I should point out, were incredibly successful, especially in China - but the concept of the pandaren as a race, a lost empire, a hidden continent, yada ya, dates back well before Dreamworks came up with these movies. Plus, people seem to have it in their head that it's an April Fools joke being given center stage - even though it became one, IT DID NOT START AS ONE. It started from a piece of artwork done by Blizzard's resident panda nut, Samwise Didier, and THEY MADE THE JOKE FROM THAT.

Later on, they gave the pandaren a somewhat more serious role with Chen Stormstout - granted, ONE guy, but enough to make an impression - but people seem to not accept that campaign in WC3: Frozen Throne as canon because of the fact it had a "jokey character" in it. So that means Daelin Proudmoore is alive, Rexxar in-game is a figment of our imaginations, and Orgrimmar and Theramore shouldn't even exist, right? They were all part of that campaign, too.

It's like with Deathwing - more than one person has asked "who the hell is he, I've never heard of him before WoW, why's HE the main villain?" - when he dates back to Warcraft II, and was fleshed out a bit more in Day of the Dragon and the War of the Ancients trilogy (and condemn Knaak for making Rhonin and Krasus too prominent all you wish, these at least were good books). And of course, there's the people who say "I shouldn't have to read books outside the game to know my in-game lore". Well, then, don't complain about not knowing something if you can't be bothered to read it!

This has been another Dev Rant.

I don't see how new content is going to ruin the game. If someone wants to play a Panda, fine. I probably won't, but I'm not going to stop someone else who wants to. We have giant, two-legged cow men and aliens in the game too. Pandas are in the lore. They just haven't been a huge part of it yet. I don't see anyone complaining that Deathwing wasn't a huge part of lore. He appeared here and there in WoW, but he was definitely there.

People complaining are just whining to whine. There will always be whiners. People who like to argue and disagree with the main way of thinking just to disagree with it. I will accept that some people may not like Pandas, but there's absolutely no reasons that they can come up with that would make Pandaren out to be a bad idea.

/applaud Dev and Rage

I thoroughly enjoyed those two posts.

On a side note, I like how Blizzard gives 7 free days every patch now? Interesting. Gives me forum time.

But as stated above, whiners will whine. It happens, and we can't very well help it.

To each their own.

While I agree with Galahn that I would have liked to have Ethereals (in the next next expansion Blizz? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?!?!?!?!) I kind of love the Pandaren. They exist in lore, and they give us a whole new continent and -- most importantly -- the enemies of the Pandaren are not loose-ends left from Warcraft II and III, unlike every other neutral enemy we've faced so far! I am SO sick of tying up loose ends, and I am super excited to have some brand new lore being created that says "Hey, this really is a WHOLE planet, a whole world! And there IS other stuff going on!"

...that said, I think that Blizz is missing an opportunity by not having some ultra-powerful being on this undiscovered continent who is SUPER ticked off at the Horde and Alliance for the Sundering and the Shattering and all of the crazy stuff that's gone on on our side of the world. :P

I'm also very excited for the monk class, which I've felt WoW was really missing even though it's actually fairly standard fantasy character class. And there is no better culture to introduce that than the Pandaren. Like, can you picture Ethereal monks? Me either. :P

((Warning: what you are about to witness is a dramatization Out Of Character, since I don't have an appropriate character for this response.))

No powerful enemy? You..you can't...*removes goggles, showing eyes that begin to glow*...think of anyone?

Fools! The Destroyer was not Death! He was its Aspect! The Aspect was not the creator! Not the mastermind!! Death shall still claim this land! FOR REVENGE!

((I'll be posting some fan fiction to get into this later. n_n))

12/08/2011 11:19 AMPosted by Crayauchtin

I am SO sick of tying up loose ends, and I am super excited to have some brand new lore being created that says "Hey, this really is a WHOLE planet, a whole world! And there IS other stuff going on!"

I'm of the understanding that the war with the Zandalari is continuing in Pandaria. Sorry, Cray - another loose end. :)

I'm one of the panda haters and I freely admit it. I mostly hate them because I cannot stand that annoying, yipping, squealing pet and I do not look forward to a world filled with bigger versions of them kung fuing everywhere.

As for asian hate, no, that isn't my reason for not liking the new area. We already have that with the Kaldorei and I like those areas. I'm not sure we need another one, but whatever.

I would much prefer Ethereals or Valkyr as playable races.

12/08/2011 02:44 PMPosted by Devaneaux

I'm of the understanding that the war with the Zandalari is continuing in Pandaria. Sorry, Cray - another loose end. :)

It's a loose end, but it's a loose end from World of Warcraft.

All our other loose storylines.... I mean, Classic was the aftermath of Warcraft III so I get that. But then they give us the Burning Crusade, where we're off to Outlands and seeing what it's like after Warcraft II and our big enemies? Burning Legion from Warcraft III, Kael'thas from Warcraft III, Illidan from Warcraft III. Then we get the Scourge and Arthas, from Warcraft III. And then they give us Cho'gall and Deathwing from Warcraft II.

Not that they're not perfectly viable storylines, not that I disliked playing them, but we're in this vast world and all they can give us is leftovers from other games? Like there's nothing else going on? There's no new villains who are powerful enough to rival the bad guys we've already seen? I like the war against the Zandalari because, even though trolls as enemies isn't anything new, this leader of theirs will (hopefully) turn out to be a new villain, fresh and unconnected to Deathwing, the Scourge, or the Burning Legion.

Now, granted, Mists of Pandaria isn't supposed to have an end game villain like Arthas or Deathwing. But, they're giving us Mantids, Mogu, and Sha as three new enemy races -- not one of which seems to be tied to anything leftover from the first three Warcraft games! Here's hoping at least one of them has an awesome boss leading them!