World of Warcraft®

I'm not sure how effective a school on how to role play is really going to be...<snip>

I feel an idea for another dotOrg column coming on...or maybe a special forum section...or hmm....

I do like this format. I think I may adopt it for my class if you don't mind me stealing your idea.

I think I neglected to say in my earlier post...Thursdays after 9pm, or before 5pm (but not as early as 1pm...). Saturdays...I'm forgetting what the conflict was. Oh. Raids. The exact timing for that is still up in the air, so will update as I figure it out.

Meh. I'm tempted to say just assign weeks, and let the guilds themselves determine what day/time to use. You'd catch more people that way.

I personally like the the idea of it running a bit like a class and covering specific topics. When you're new you don't always know what questions to even ask, and to have the opportunity to practice interacting without it being part of a "normal" event helps take the pressure off. Not actual pressure as most are very accepting of new RPers, but even lightening the self imposed pressure might help some players get started.

06/06/2012 07:13 AMPosted by Taiva

I personally like the the idea of it running a bit like a class and covering specific topics. When you're new you don't always know what questions to even ask, and to have the opportunity to practice interacting without it being part of a "normal" event helps take the pressure off. Not actual pressure as most are very accepting of new RPers, but even lightening the self imposed pressure might help some players get started.

Seconded! (Is it cheating if I switch to alts to third this? :P)

And Genrow, do you an Alliance alt that could teach fighting for us? :P
(Although I don't like the idea of just letting my characters die because of an RP fight -- something like that really should be talked about beforehand!)

I'm not sure how effective a school on how to role play is really going to be. Writing styles, "commonly accepted rules", and other role play things are often times very personal. Some prefer to RP in first person, while others prefer third for example.

[quote]
That's not the sort of thing we'd be teaching.... We're talking about teaching standards (like "don't god-mode"), jargon ("what is OOC"), RP addons, character creation.... the things that get a lot of questions, the things that can be taught. Izby had suggested a curriculum on page one, I don't know if you saw it, but it's a pretty solid list of topics to cover.

But these things ARE personal. God modding is perfectly acceptable in some people's circles. Other people are okay with you controlling the actions of their character if you've discussed it previous. Some people like certain addons, others don't use any. Some people prefer to write a character's background and personality before they ever attempt to play them-- others like to make it up as they go. The only things in that list that are not personal are physical game mechanics (such as how to use the /em command). The rest are entirely up to the group of people you role play with. I wouldn't attend an event that you're dictating to me how to do things; but I certainly would participate in a discussion of how I like to do things, and the pros and cons of it. It's a lot easier to ask questions if you feel like you're in an open discussion versus being told "how it is."

The problem I see with an in-game event is you alienate 'half' the server. Only Alliance can attend Alliance events. It's also exactly what you're saying won't work-- a "newbie friendly" event. The same problems you run into trying to get new people to an "RP Practice" event is the same problem you're going to have getting people to show up to a class. You also run into the cluttered calendar. Weekday events are harder for people to attend, and there's already a lot of weekend events that happen (raids, events, guild meetings).

There are millions of guides, but the entire purpose of your class is to talk about how people on CC RP, right? So then a CC-specific guide would be far more useful than a generic RP guide.

Finding the event in game or finding on the forums is pretty much the same-- you have to look on the forums, or run across RPers, to learn about it. No one knows about Alliance/Horde OOC channels unless they come to the forums, or run into RPers and are told about it. I mean, I suppose you could spam trade chat about your RP training class... good luck with the griefers that show up. Having something in-game combined with something on the forums is the best way to ensure you capture a large number of people.

Whatever you want to do, roll with it and good luck-- just trying to give some more suggestions on how to make this capture a larger number of people. There's no reason only "newbies" should be attending. Sharing ideas, thoughts, and styles should involve anyone willing to contribute.

Edit: Go for it Lahkin.

06/06/2012 03:02 PMPosted by Eslyn

But these things ARE personal. God modding is perfectly acceptable in some people's circles. Other people are okay with you controlling the actions of their character if you've discussed it previous. Some people like certain addons, others don't use any. Some people prefer to write a character's background and personality before they ever attempt to play them-- others like to make it up as they go.

Of course individual styles and preferences are going to develop over time, but I believe the intend of what's being suggested is to sort of get some RPers' feet wet. There are quite a few folks in Allianceooc (dunno about Hordeooc) that know that there is roleplay here, but are unsure about commonly accepted do's and don'ts. Some don't know the importance of spelling and grammer. Some just simply wanna know which is more user friendly, RSP or MRP.

(I.E: "I stab you in the face and you die" not being a generally accepted RP starter.)

06/06/2012 03:02 PMPosted by Eslyn

The problem I see with an in-game event is you alienate 'half' the server. Only Alliance can attend Alliance events.

I doubt anyone will object to the Horde-side roleplayers creating a similar event.

06/06/2012 03:02 PMPosted by Eslyn

There are millions of guides, but the entire purpose of your class is to talk about how people on CC RP, right? So then a CC-specific guide would be far more useful than a generic RP guide.

True enough. The classes will likely lean towards RP commonalities specific to CC, but hey, if it helps people get into CC's RP, cool.

06/06/2012 03:02 PMPosted by Eslyn

Finding the event in game or finding on the forums is pretty much the same-- you have to look on the forums, or run across RPers, to learn about it. No one knows about Alliance/Horde OOC channels unless they come to the forums, or run into RPers and are told about it.

Actually, that's not the case on this side of the server. Players are coming to the server and finding their way to Allianceooc, but are generally unsure how to insert themselves into the community, so to speak. Many, as I said before, want some way to find the answers to questions they don't exaclty feel confident enough to just ask.

06/06/2012 03:02 PMPosted by Eslyn

Whatever you want to do, roll with it and good luck-- just trying to give some more suggestions on how to make this capture a larger number of people. There's no reason only "newbies" should be attending. Sharing ideas, thoughts, and styles should involve anyone willing to contribute.

Agreed! :)

06/06/2012 07:10 AMPosted by Lahkin

Meh. I'm tempted to say just assign weeks, and let the guilds themselves determine what day/time to use. You'd catch more people that way.

Sort of gets in the way of consistency if you do it that way though which would have the exact opposite effect your going for in trying to get more people to attend.

I think the easiest solution is Basics on week 1. Saturday. Guilds can choose the time but 5 server is probably right before a lot of raid times I imagine.

Advanced topics on week 2. Thursday. Again guilds can choose the time.

Basically the weeks rotate. The reasoning behind that setup is to try and get the classes close together so that you aren't spending a week bumbling about. I have been thinking though that character creation is a long and drawn out process for many people so it'd probably best to point them ton an online source that discusses how to do it OR give it its own week. Thoughts?

Consistency brings back old event-goers, but why is that a selling point for an event that's supposed to be for NEW event-goers? In other words, do you catch more fish throwing out a broad net or trying to spear in one area that's been speared a hundred times before with other events?

Remember, too, as I ran into this problem coordinating the Spring Festival times--every guild and event runner has a different time that's good for them. If you make it so it's only good for (example) your guild, and keep it at only that time, you're potentially cutting out a huge portion of people that would otherwise want to participate.

This meant as a very general thing with no feeling attached: when asking people to run events of your own idea, you want to allow a large level of autonomy. When inspiring others to make a big investment of time and energy, you take what they're interested in and build off of that, rather than tell them what you think would be cool and expect them to do it. Otherwise all you're doing is telling people to do work for you, which isn't on most people's agenda in a game. Kind of like what Eslyn is saying with different styles of RP, but apply that to the spurring of more RP, too.

If there is anything I can do to help, you guys know how to get a hold of me...

I think you're operating under a different impression of what a "class" is than everyone else in this thread, Eslyn.

But these things ARE personal. God modding is perfectly acceptable in some people's circles

I have not ever encountered anyone from these circles in any form of RP that I've ever been engaged in (in-game, forums, play-by-email, whatever). Please point them out to me. I'm pretty sure basically every RP guide ever says "Don't god mode!" in big, enormous bold letters. If you've seen one that doesn't tell you not to god mode, pleeease post a link but I'm skeptical.

Other people are okay with you controlling the actions of their character if you've discussed it previous.

Almost anything is acceptable to anyone if its discussed beforehand -- but again, this is something a lot of new roleplayers don't know. Which would be why it's something to talk about in a class where they would be learning about it.

Some people like certain addons, others don't use any.

Yet, countless new roleplayers ask "What are some good RP addons?" We would be talking about each one and what the differences are so that people can take what they learned from the class to choose one. I'm not sure where you got the idea we were telling people what to do -- it is a class. Y'know, much the same way you learn grammar in English classes but aren't taught a writing style?

Some people prefer to write a character's background and personality before they ever attempt to play them-- others like to make it up as they go.

And yet countless new roleplayers ask "How do I make a character?" We would be teaching about the different ways to do that, not telling people how. Please insert my English classes analogy here as well. :P

I wouldn't attend an event that you're dictating to me how to do things;

Which would not be this event.

but I certainly would participate in a discussion of how I like to do things, and the pros and cons of it.

Which WOULD be this event.

It's a lot easier to ask questions if you feel like you're in an open discussion versus being told "how it is."

That's called the "socratic method" and, at least a few years ago when I was in college, was pretty much the standard form classes were taking at my school. So, y'know, being a "class" does not mean there isn't discussion.

The problem I see with an in-game event is you alienate 'half' the server. Only Alliance can attend Alliance events.

Which would be a problem if it hadn't been mentioned in this thread that Horde just started having a night like this. So, actually your concern should really be that we don't have an event like this for Alliance players.

It's also exactly what you're saying won't work-- a "newbie friendly" event.

No, it's not a "newbie friendly" event. It is an event for newbies. That may not seem like a huge difference, but it is a difference and it matters.

The same problems you run into trying to get new people to an "RP Practice" event is the same problem you're going to have getting people to show up to a class.

No, you missed my point. See -- these "newbie friendly" events are not "RP Practice" -- they are real RP. Yes, newbies are encouraged to show up but it's still throwing them right into the deep end without a life jacket. Off the tall diving board. There's really no difference between these "newbie friendly" events and any other RP event except that there's less chance of some sort of complicated, hard-to-RP situation arising because of the scenario being played out.

You also run into the cluttered calendar. Weekday events are harder for people to attend, and there's already a lot of weekend events that happen (raids, events, guild meetings).

And this is where your suggestions would be the most helpful.

06/06/2012 09:27 PMPosted by Lahkin

Consistency brings back old event-goers, but why is that a selling point for an event that's supposed to be for NEW event-goers? In other words, do you catch more fish throwing out a broad net or trying to spear in one area that's been speared a hundred times before with other events?

I'm inclined to agree here -- this isn't an event where we should be striving for just numbers. We want the most people we can get, yes, but out of a very select pool. And I think the best thing about not having just one guild doing this is that the times can vary, which helps us reach more people within that select pool.

You know, I wanted to help with this, and was trying to give some suggestions... but you are so defensive and stuck with your idea that I don't even care anymore.

Good luck in whatever you do.

Eslyn, I think the issue some might be having is instead of making suggestions, your posts seem to be questioning whether it should be done the way it's planned on being done. It isn't an attempt to keep Horde out; faction language barriers keep us from holding a lot of events without benefit of AAMS translating or using Real ID; not everyone types very fast, which can interrupt the flow of events depending on translation, and others aren't comfortable using Real ID or RPing through it.

It isn't about being defensive; near as I can tell, there are explanations being given for why it's being done in its current format. No one's telling you you're wrong, they're telling you how they plan on doing it. Isn't that what you're doing as well: telling folks how you'd like to see it done?

To some extent the ideas people are promoting are getting away from what the original intent was so here's some clarification with some things we are trying to do.

We're using a set time of Saturdays at around 2 server since quite a few people in game said that they would be able to help at that time. The reason we're using one time is because it makes it easier for the people running it to show up and for the people who want to attend to find out when it is and show up as well. All this each guild has their own class at whatever hour they choose only decreases the likelihood that someone can attend and receive the most support they can in their leap into RP. It also decreases the likelihood of another guild covering if that previous guild can't attend for whatever reason.

I won't be doing anything horde side or with forum posts. I don't object to others doing it, but that is going beyond the initial idea that we had. The idea was very simple. The teacher explains something and then asks the students to try it themselves so that you can get people to attempt things right there. There won't be a rigid this is how you roleplay method to the teaching but rather here are some suggestions for how to roleplay. Everyone is different so you may run into different methods. It's a guide not a this is how you do it or else.

The determined setup after talking with many people in-game is that we'd do two weeks of classes and two weeks of lore. I'm still debating the advantages of rotating between RP lessons and lore or simply following RP, RP, lore, lore in terms of schedule. It was a point made in game and it's a good one that lore is a very difficult thing for some new RPers so I feel it's probably a good thing to include.

We aren't trying to reinvent the wheel here. These type of classes have been done very successfully on other servers and how we did it on WrA is what I'm using as a basis for this set up here. If you would like to do other things that are related please go for it, but simple and consistent is always better in these things so that's what I'm trying to do with the format. Teachers will be allowed to teach it how they want, but keeping it in the same place at the same time is all I'm shooting for.

Format: Demonstrate - Guided Practice
When: Saturdays 2pm server ((I need to double check but I believe this was the agreed upon time)).
What: RP & Lore classes.
Schedule: ((tentative))

Basics of RP
Creating your character
How much lore to include in your background
Common rp terms
Common RP locations & standards ((practices & levels such as normal, casual, full-time))
How to emote and talk including using accents so that you can RP.
What your character knows and can deduce about a person without crossing into godmodding.
Distinguishing OOC and IC moments.

Depending on how far you got the first class, pick up an topics you didn't finish and start here.
More Advanced Aspects of RP
Profile addons. ((MRP, etc.))
Other addons. ((accents, gryphonheart items, etc.))
Fighting both rp and pvp and the consequences.
Playing a guard or some form of policing agent.
Playing a criminal or being evil so you can clash with those guards.
Playing your class maybe?
Responding to World Defense and IC reasons for doing so?

Lore Week 1
Lore Week 2

Please send me a whisper or mail ingame if you are still interested in helping out. I know of a few names but I want to make sure before I start asking people to choose what they would like to teach.