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Nishk- I will agree with you about Camp Trajho. That was unfortunate. Course if you all are as united as you say you are then ALL of the horde are responsible for the plaguing of Hillsbrad as well as the plundering of Ashenvale. Not just the forsaken or the orcs? If I am correct in this assessment then we were within our rights to retaliate against any horde camp.

Druse- Questioning our loyalty? If I remember right most of your followed a guy that sold himself and your people out to the Legion.

Vonswargart- King Wyrnn is pretty stable to me. He just never bought into the horde persecution bullcrap.

Oskar- Tyrant. Hardly. King Wrynn waived off the Alliance forces when Saurfang wanted retrieve his son from Ice Crown Citadel. I doubt if the situation was reversed Hellscream would have done the same. Garrosh is nothing more than an overgrown runt is trying to live up to his father's legacy of war and savagery. Our King is at least focus first and formost on the safety of his people. The same cannot be said of your Warchief.


-Malisalara: I admire your choice and your decision. Most of the people here are right. It will be a hard path for you to follow with hardship at every turn but at times one must always follow their conscience. Good luck and Light guide you.

I know it will not be easy and I never swore any oath to any warchief. I followed Thrall because for the most part I agreed with him. My rank is inherited from a line that was existing before the sundering. Garrosh has no right to command me, or any elf I am not running to the alliance. I am not going to claim our independance from the horde just to give it up to the alliance. I was thinking more along of a ceasefire between my people and the alliance. At the moment we have far bigger problems to worry about. Would a truce be so bad? Think of the things we could accomplish together? When both factions worked together we did so much. Such working together will never happen under warchief musclehead.

Dearest Elfy....

I don't rightly know if any folk have pointed this out to you, but, while I agree with you that Garrosh is a complete and utter fool, I reckon tryin' to express yer dislike fer his ways by doing exactly the same sort of shenanigans he's known for ain't the brightest way to go about things, and is more than likely going to git the lot of ya killed.

Cairne wouldn't approve, no way, no how.

So, open yer eyes, look at what is, instead of what you wish was, and make the changes you'd like to see, instead of kneejerk reactionary posturing.

Here's a tip, go ask Lor'thremar for some advice, he seems like he's a reasonable fellow.

Kin dest Regards
Plainswander, Druid

Malisalara,

Your vision of a world not held back by the confines of such arbitrary factionalism is one that we share. Unfortunately, the passing of Cairne, who always held my respect, and Thrall's present absence push this goal further back than perhaps it has ever been. And in the wake of the recent disaster, people are afraid, and easily led in the wrong direction.

The majority of the Horde (and Alliance for that matter) do not wish to hear our voices. I applaud your courage, but you walk a dangerous path. Attempts on my life from within the Alliance are unlikely, but I can not say the same for you in your own faction. All I ask is that you do not get yourself killed. You will not die a martyr. You will only further incite that which you stand against.

(( Blargh, for some reason my first post didn't go through. ))


How silly some of my kin have become. Publicly condemning the Horde's leader and all Orcs. You mention little of the Forsaken and of the Trolls. Garrosh has done what needed to be done for the Horde. Have you stepped into Ashenvale? If Thrall was still here, the Kaldorei probably would've already taken over everything.


I am glad you have removed yourself from Orgrimmar, but please note, you would not even be allowed in Orgrimmar. In fact, you should be allowed in no Horde city, encampment, or fortress, not even Silvermoon, seeing as you are no longer part of the Horde. Where will you be living? I hear that Stormwind has a nice view of the Ocean, perhaps Ehlina can assist you with finding a place to stay now that you have announced your House and yourself as Rebels and enemies of the Horde.


I truly hope I do not see you, or any member of your House, for I will attempt to kill you, or bring you in to Garrosh personally. I'm sure gold will be offered for those who speak so kindly of our new Warchief.

A great deal more than you know of history, apparently.

You have mentioned two of the most memorable names in Human History, and their greatest misdeeds... and failed to take into account that one case had been possessed since birth by the Dark Titan himself, and the other was, after taking up Frostmourne, nothing more than a puppet of Ner'zhul, and had indeed likely been driven mad by his forces, and what he had seen. And even so, he had not intended to cause Muradin's death when he took up the cursed blade. He simply failed to feel remorse afterwards, his soul having been stolen.

Do not mistake me for defending his horrible actions, but this is not disloyalty, Elf.

As for the third case... Daelin Proudmoore did not betray his daughter. In fact, he desired her cooperation. It was, in fact, JAINA who turned against her father in the interest of peace. When you are loyal to two different people, who force you to choose between them, making the choice that saves lives is, again, not disloyalty.

Meanwhile, your own Prince willingly sided with first Illidan, then betraying HIM for the Burning Legion, and then turned against his own people in Silvermoon. Your people, rather than discussing matters with ANY other human nation, take the actions of a single troop commander as the will of all humanity, and side with the very Orcs who once tried to burn your beloved forests to the ground.

To throw your own arguments back at you... what the hell do any of you Elves know of loyalty?

Wait, let me see if I understand this. You don't like Garrosh, so you're leaving the Horde. This is pretty much what it boils down to, yes? You know, many Sin'dorei have fought hard to be accepted among the Horde. We've fought alongside them, bleed with them and died with them.

Forgive me if I don't find your actions particularly admirable nor honorable.

You would do well to heed thr words of the tauren druid there, the one with the accent. Seems to me he's speaking a good deal of sense.

And for fel's sake, can we leave Kael'thas out of the argument? He was outright insane. Medivh had been corrupted since before his birth. Let those tired arguments rest. Arthas... Well. That's another story entirely.

You have mentioned two of the most memorable names in Human History, and their greatest misdeeds... and failed to take into account that one case had been possessed since birth by the Dark Titan himself, and the other was, after taking up Frostmourne, nothing more than a puppet of Ner'zhul, and had indeed likely been driven mad by his forces, and what he had seen.

You humans crack me up, shore 'nuff. Y'all realise this here's the EXACT same dang plea fer understanding them orcs gives when you folks starts in on how "savage" and "brutal" and "irredeemable" they is?

Can't have it both ways fella.

Now, I ain't defendin garrosh, An'She knows, he needs him a whack or twelve-teen, but give the boy time. Feel free ta beat him up as hard as you bloody well can (And, having been smacked on the head once or twice by miss Ehlina over yonder,I know you pinkies can hit plenty hard), but keep talking to him too, teach him some hard lessons, see wut happens. I got me a sneakin suspicion he's capable of change. You don't fix bullies just by beatin on em, you fix em by beatin on 'em and showing them there's a better way.

(Reckon maybe we kin help you out with your own current Chinnychinchin fella this way too... all for the greater good of course...)

You humans crack me up, shore 'nuff. Y'all realise this here's the EXACT same dang plea fer understanding them orcs gives when you folks starts in on how "savage" and "brutal" and "irredeemable" they is?

Can't have it both ways fella.

The difference, my good Tauren, is that once freed from that possession, Medivh did not merely CLAIM he was redeemed, changed, or what-have-you... he went out and made every attempt to save lives and prepare the world for a greater coming evil so we might fight against it.

The Horde, however, simply kept spouting that they were a "New" Horde, different from the Horde that had ravaged Stormwind and rampaged across the Eastern Kingdoms. Meanwhile, while the head spoke, the body continued to act just as savagely as it always had - the only difference was that they now did so with Shamanism instead of Warlocks as their primary source of magical power. I have tried to see redemption in the Horde, I truly have.

But the deeper I look, the more what I see resembles the same Horde that destoyed Stormwind, and very nearly took Lordaeron as well.

You don't have to be well versed in the situation of the Human lands to know that all but Elywnn and Stormwind have fallen into a state of dismay. And how's your king react? He fixes up his little castle to have a nice lake view and a stalwart statue of himself for all to see. I'm surprised his throne isn't made of gold.

At least Garrosh has dedicated the Hordes wealth in the form of New Orgrimmar, and dozens of other new settlements.

The difference, my good Tauren, is that once freed from that possession, Medivh did not merely CLAIM he was redeemed, changed, or what-have-you... he went out and made every attempt to save lives and prepare the world for a greater coming evil so we might fight against it.

The Horde, however, simply kept spouting that they were a "New" Horde, different from the Horde that had ravaged Stormwind and rampaged across the Eastern Kingdoms. Meanwhile, while the head spoke, the body continued to act just as savagely as it always had - the only difference was that they now did so with Shamanism instead of Warlocks as their primary source of magical power. I have tried to see redemption in the Horde, I truly have.

But the deeper I look, the more what I see resembles the same Horde that destoyed Stormwind, and very nearly took Lordaeron as well.

Pfft, I could say the same bout you humans, but I ain't gonna take that glove up from where ya done throwed it sir. There's plenty instances of one side bein noble, or horrible, and totting 'em up and counting coup ain't gonna get nobody nowheres. You wanna quitcher whinin' and maybe stand fer something other than continued conflict, call me, shoot, call the AAMS, maybe we'll a work something out, until then, yer just ruffling feathers youngster.

Kindest Regards
Plainswander, Druid

p.s. did it ever cross yer pink little mind that once Medivh knew the poop was hittin the propellors, one of the first things he did was go an' recuit our boy Thrall, and through him, the horde? Think on that fer a spell, ya flag wavin' ninny.

Do not misunderstand me, I do not seek out unnecessary conflict with the Horde, Plainswander. I merely defend myself when provoked. I have, do, and will continue to work alongside the Horde when appropriate. But I agree. Neither my own people, nor the Orcs are perfect. We both have our moments of good and ill in our pasts.

This conversation goes nowhere. Let it simply be seen how many have spoken out, calling out this decision to separate from the Horde because of Garrosh for the foolishness it is.

Signed,
Blazieth Harmarth

PS: Medivh attempted to recruit the human nations as well - it simply wasn't until Jaina that his warnings were heeded, and with both parties, it was likely only because they could sense his tremendous power. If you ask me, his intentions were honorable, but his methods were less than ideal.

PPS: As amusing as it is to hear an old man like myself referred to as "Youngster", call me that again, and I'll have you wandering your bluffs as a sheep for a week.

Thisss sssituation hasss one great advantage, yesss. More food for Abominusss, yesss...

The OP should try doing the Stonetalon quest chain for Horde.

((On a side note I did do the stone talon stuff, I was in the beta. Lara is level 75, can't think of any reason why she would goto stone talon. She did it way back when. The whole point of this was to start up a leveling guild for all the new rerolls who wanted to be a set of rabble rousers. Considering all the people screaming about Garrosh I thought some people might be interested. It is fun to be the outsider on occasion. Look at the modas, nobody likes them, but at least they have fun. Ah well cuddle up to him if you want. I know where Lara stands, even if she has to stand alone. As a player I don't care about Garrosh beyond his ability to give me quests.))

Since Echota told me of the vision of himself and Garrosh that Voljin shows young trolls--and anyone else who happens to be standing around--I've been pretty sure that Garrosh is headed for a bad end. I personally suspect the future of Azeroth will be Baine and Anduin, but it's early days and there is always the possibility that a new leader will emerge or that Baine or Anduin will follow another path.

((I initially saw Baine as little more than a stand-in for his father, but having done the new tauren starter quests, I'm pretty impressed with him.))

PPS: As amusing as it is to hear an old man like myself referred to as "Youngster", call me that again, and I'll have you wandering your bluffs as a sheep for a week.

BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Rightyo then Bucko, how about "whippersnapper", can I call ya that? You kids is is cute when ya gits all fussy. Sheepin' me, indeed.

Plainswander, Druid