World of Warcraft®

I think something should be put in regarding Evil Forsaken, seeing as how they are more accepted than any other evil race in the game. Because of this, I obviously don't need a disguise :P

Also, good work on the guide! Very informative! :D

04/19/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Finaj

I think something should be put in regarding Evil Forsaken, seeing as how they are more accepted than any other evil race in the game. Because of this, I obviously don't need a disguise :P

This is a valid point, it's why I didn't really touch on 'Forsaken and incognito' in their section but I'll go ahead and add a little extra :D

This may be a bit of a clunky question but I'll try my best to word it correctly. How would some create infamy on the server without it spilling over to OOC metagaming, hate, or something nasty along the lines?

Say for an example someone wanted to create a blood thirsty conqureror who would do whatever they wished to win a battle regardless if it's moral or not. How could someone protray this without having these actions spill over into the OOC world?

(Think realisticly, in a perfect world the OOC overtone wouldn't happen)

04/19/2011 12:22 PMPosted by Dalavesta

I think something should be put in regarding Evil Forsaken, seeing as how they are more accepted than any other evil race in the game. Because of this, I obviously don't need a disguise :P

This is a valid point, it's why I didn't really touch on 'Forsaken and incognito' in their section but I'll go ahead and add a little extra :D

Thanks! Bump to my favorite evil person Alliance side! :D

This may be a bit of a clunky question but I'll try my best to word it correctly. How would some create infamy on the server without it spilling over to OOC metagaming, hate, or something nasty along the lines?

Say for an example someone wanted to create a blood thirsty conqureror who would do whatever they wished to win a battle regardless if it's moral or not. How could someone protray this without having these actions spill over into the OOC world?

(Think realisticly, in a perfect world the OOC overtone wouldn't happen)

Oh man, I've been working on this for years. It's a really good question.

There are a lot of things that have to go into this sort of thing, and there are a couple very interesting ways to go about it.

The biggest tip I have is don't start off with your character being evil! Spend some months allowing their surroundings to influence them, to get a deep and rich personality going before their corruption starts. Establishing yourself in the community first as a good role-player and then moving up to evil RP through character progression is really one of the biggest helping hands anyone will have.

This isn't really a tip but it's an idea I've toyed around with, and I've seen others play around with as well! It's very simple, we establish ourselves in the community as a 'good' character, we have a guild to back us up, or create one that we lead in seemingly good endeavors! We're securing artifacts from evil people, we're fighting back the horde. When in reality we're hoarding artifacts for ourselves, pillaging lands to sustain our order, and feeding the gluttony of a real mad-man that sits at the top, with the entire world in his grasp. Everyone praises him as a hero. And no one is none the wiser.

As for actions spilling over into the OOC? It's always going to happen. You're never going to avoid it. Evil characters are a great place for people to further their own stories, and thus become a device to do so. People have specific points they want to reach, and they want you to help them. So you agree, you set something up, get everything ready and! Some folks who've been /whoing you or OOCly following you all day call in three large guilds to bash your face in. Not only ruining the event but the chance for progression in someone elses Role-play.
Then, when asked to leave, the guilds themselves have no issue and go on their merry way, but the person who called them in tells you that your guild can burn in fire and you'll throw a party when it's gone.

I'm using this oddly specific example for a reason. As an evil character it's up to -you- to establish relationships OOCly with every guild you think you'll run into ever. It makes dealing with situations like these easier. With the support of their leaders the bad times like this one that you can run into become ten times easier to deal with :) OOC is going to happen...being evil is a patient process.

It sounds funny but I can honestly say I've become a better and more patient person for running this guild and playing an evil character.

Night folks.

Would RPing as a freelance necromancer bent on the destruction of humanity whom turns parts of the Raven Hill catacombs into his personal fortress and attempts to create an undead army of minions be lore breaking?

I might want to make a guild on this concept..

The problem with take over the world types is you can't really get a foothold. If you say you have taken the graveyard you only have if everyone says you have and you can bet someone will pop up and say no you can't do that!

Rp by consent, which is what rp servers have, make it hard to play the bad guy. Looking at your quests, even if your evil like DK's and warlocks, your still a hero. If you try to kidnap people, or hurt them, or affect them in any way they tend to turn into Ginsu Bob the mage who is a swordmaster, has better spells then Sargaras and is sneakyer then Garona, because let's face it no one likes to loose. So you can only be evil if people let you be.

Remember that not all paladins are 'devout followers' in the sense that they worship the light. The best example is the Blood Knights who, even to this day don't bow to it (well that one's that didn't wuss out and go paladin with Liadrin anyways) but maintain their will over the light to use as they see fit.

Thank you!

I've had Lellex seperate from the Blood Knights for a long time due to the shenanigans of various guilds trying to run Silvemroon, and Liadrin's pathetic groveling and revisionist attitude towards the order. That said, I've gotten a bit tired of people insisting that post Sunwell Lellex must act like one of those Silver Hand altar boys and kiss Liadrin's wind chime loving toes. There is no religion or traditional paladin code of honor here.

The Blood Knights were the product of a furious and threatened race ripping the ability to control light magic from a higher power, and then using it to smite the filthy enemy. I don't care that the Sunwell is lit. I don't care that Liadrin is a pushover and a traitor. I don't care what Velen has to say. I don't care about the -ridiculous- DURP DIS WAS DA PLAN ALL ALONG shenanigans.

My paladin has always been one who exerts her will over magic and bends it to suit her own needs. I refuse to have her farting sunshine and rainbows and acting otherwise now.

... because let's face it no one likes to loose.

Maybe you don't have to like losing, but if you RP, you HAVE to be willing to lose on occasion; sometimes losing the little battles, sometimes the big battles. Even the classic heroes lost on occasion, sometimes tragically so.

With the proliferation of the anti-hero, there's a lot more opportunity and good-story reason to lose.

Which leads to a question: What's your take on the anti-villian?

Maybe you don't have to like losing, but if you RP, you HAVE to be willing to lose on occasion; sometimes losing the little battles, sometimes the big battles. Even the classic heroes lost on occasion, sometimes tragically so.

If you play an evil character and you take the stance 'I'm never going to lose' people are going to either ignore you, get angry at you, or you're going to get back blacklisted. It's a sad but unfortunate truth, too many bad guys forget that they live in a world where...like it or not...the good guys still win :).

04/20/2011 09:53 AMPosted by Raynir

What's your take on the anti-villian?

Spoiler alert. Some of the biggest 'Villain's on MG on Anti-Villains. I can't say anything more than 'I love them' or I'll give stuff away.

Would RPing as a freelance necromancer bent on the destruction of humanity whom turns parts of the Raven Hill catacombs into his personal fortress and attempts to create an undead army of minions be lore breaking?

I might want to make a guild on this concept..

Nothing it breaks lore, but it steps on toes. A couple things to keep in mind about 'claiming' RP spots. Try not to have them 'IC' be named after parts of the world. For instance: You can 'claim' a crypt, but don't have it be THE Raven Hill Catacombs, you'll run into a lot of conflict that way.

An undead army, if completed could easily be considered Mary Sue. And it'll be hard to pull off. But the big question is: Why does he want to crush humanity? What's the point? What does he get out of it?

If you play an evil character and you take the stance 'I'm never going to lose' people are going to either ignore you, get angry at you, or you're going to get back blacklisted. It's a sad but unfortunate truth, too many bad guys forget that they live in a world where...like it or not...the good guys still win :).

I think far too many forget the converse is true in fiction: no matter how noble or righteous or powerful you are, the good can still fall. I frequently see instances on MG where what could evolve into great RP is killed before it even really gets going because of someone's simple refusal to accept that an evil character could be more powerful than they.

------
Edit: This is just my personal opinion, but it's because I really can't stand godmodding and those who have no flaws. It's ridiculous and unbelievable when it comes right down to it.

04/20/2011 12:20 PMPosted by Raynir

I think far too many forget the converse is true in fiction: no matter how noble or righteous or powerful you are, the good can still fall. I frequently see instances on MG where what could evolve into great RP is killed before it even really gets going because of someone's simple refusal to accept that an evil character could be more powerful than they.

No, you're absolutely right. Great potential for RP has been squashed because there is no give and tank. Good Guys get on the high horse the moment the bad guys crop up and everyone -swarms- them for the first couple of weeks and ends up beating them with a stick so hard they can't take it.

I've been surprised that over the months more and more good guys are willing to lose, and it's actually turned into a winning streak for us. I like it, but I still always take the stance that 'we're cultists, we're weak, we are going to lose'. Everyone in my guild expects that, and people coming into EvilRP should expect that.

Of course this gives rise to why some evil RPers justify using some non PC friendly items to 'keep from dying'.

I've always liked the concept of the "evil" character who simply doesn't believe they're evil. Take, for instance, the recent battle we had with EoO in Dustwallow last night.

EoO and Wolves of Greymane were bent on taking down the filthy, violent, savage, evil Trolls of the Horde, who were infesting the marshlands.

The Shadowdrum Tribe fiercely defended their right to travel in Kalimdor wherever they wished, against the cruel Alliance infiltrators who tried to (yet again) push them out of rightful Horde territory.

Who is the evil side? Who is the good side? When the Shadowdrum pushed back the Alliance, was it good winning, or evil winning?

Neither, both, a combination of the two... And I believe that's quality conflict, when there's no black-and-white distinction over who is in the right or in the wrong.

Watch Conan the Destroyer. Add in an overdose of ego and arrogance, and you'll be all set.

:)

04/20/2011 12:05 PMPosted by Dalavesta

Maybe you don't have to like losing, but if you RP, you HAVE to be willing to lose on occasion; sometimes losing the little battles, sometimes the big battles. Even the classic heroes lost on occasion, sometimes tragically so.

If you play an evil character and you take the stance 'I'm never going to lose' people are going to either ignore you, get angry at you, or you're going to get back blacklisted. It's a sad but unfortunate truth, too many bad guys forget that they live in a world where...like it or not...the good guys still win :).

04/20/2011 09:53 AMPosted by Raynir

What's your take on the anti-villian?

Spoiler alert. Some of the biggest 'Villain's on MG on Anti-Villains. I can't say anything more than 'I love them' or I'll give stuff away.

Would RPing as a freelance necromancer bent on the destruction of humanity whom turns parts of the Raven Hill catacombs into his personal fortress and attempts to create an undead army of minions be lore breaking?

I might want to make a guild on this concept..

Nothing it breaks lore, but it steps on toes. A couple things to keep in mind about 'claiming' RP spots. Try not to have them 'IC' be named after parts of the world. For instance: You can 'claim' a crypt, but don't have it be THE Raven Hill Catacombs, you'll run into a lot of conflict that way.

An undead army, if completed could easily be considered Mary Sue. And it'll be hard to pull off. But the big question is: Why does he want to crush humanity? What's the point? What does he get out of it?

My character Theodosious was born in Darkshire, or the Grand Hamlet, before it was destroyed. Theodosious experienced a rough childhood, his parents being murdered by other humans, not by orcs, making Theodosious vengeful against his own kind. He recieved problems as he grew up like many people do today; money, food, shelter, and treated as the town nobody.

Later, Theodosious visited the grave of his parents, and on the way, he finds a tome. One detailing necromancy, how to raise the dead, and embrace the shadow. Theodosious took a liking to it, and began to practice it himself. Theodosious dedicated himself to practicing the ways of the dark arts, becoming a hermit in Raven Hill and clearing out the undead in parts of the catacombs, bent on creating a fortress of his own.

All in all, Theodosious wants Darkshire destroyed. Now corrupted, Theodosious may want to kill any parts of humanity near him in an act of vengeance. What he really wants is just power, basically.

I might have worded my last post wrong also. An undead army would not be in hundreds or thousands. At most, maybe a couple dozen ICly, but if this is too much, I'll change it. The guild I might create would be based on Theodosious' minions and servants. The cult and "army" in his "fortress."

And by freelance, I meant on his own. Not alleiged to any one power.

04/21/2011 07:49 AMPosted by Theodosious

And by freelance, I meant on his own. Not alleiged to any one power.

Then what you wanted to say was 'Rogue Necromancer', and make sure that in a sentence you don't capitalise the rogue. Otherwise someone might think you're trying to multi-class. (Not that it's necessarily bad, but it easily becomes bad due to the difficulties of give/take in order to get both sides of such a deal to work.)

Also, sure, go ahead and establish your own Cult if you want. See how you go, maybe talk to Dala-Mufasa (The OP, I called her that and its stuck in my head now) about some ideas or plot points... Otherwise myself and a few other people on the server would be more than willing to sit down and have a good chat with ya.

Only 'issue' I personally have with your story however, now that you've allowed us a peek into the fleshy stuffs of it is simply 'He found a tome, it was about necromancy and embracing the shadow and he liked it.'
This is far too difficult right off the bat like that, because not even Kel'Thuzad, privy as he was to all the Kirin Tor's forbidden documents about Necromancy, picked it up until Ner'Zhul (Lich King) turned around and went "Hey guy! Yeah, yeah you in the hat! I like you. Want to learn from a pro? Subscription fee is only as expensive as your soul!" ... So you'd have to seriously build up your character progression through the relatively-unpracticed-by-civilized-folk art of Necromancy. My suggestion to help you? Duskwood is rife with the leave-behinds of previous dwellers who came from the dark places of the world... We've seen shadow-weilding Worgen, reanimated champions of the township, purple-hatted (And now Lich-ded) Necromancers, lots and lots and lots of skeletons... Basically a lot of things that have held at one point or another some semblance of 'power'...

Point i'm making? Use them. Not all of them, not only the uber-duper-super important ones that tie you in to the really powerful stuff (Because that treads the line of the Mary Sue) but instead... Why not the femur of a skeletal Shadow-caster? Or perhaps the physical heart of a Worgen? Get creative, and make use of physical 'prop' aids to help your guy create foci for his magic. That'll help make your single-handed rise to Necromancy far more believable, not to mention fun and gritty. Who knows? Maybe your character took the time out of his days to rob the graves of buried and -known- spell-weavers to pilfer their fingers and make a necklace to enchant with their residual spell-scents? Okay, maybe that last one is a tad left field... But who knows?

Harkening back to the idea of a guild based around your character, along with his servants and minions, you'd be better off only doing so with the people you trust the absolute most... Because it is basically having them put their characters almost entirely under your own characters, and in turn your OOC selfs will. That latter being something that becomes apparent later down the field and is hard to keep under close supervision, or 'wraps'.
Be careful with this idea, and trust it in the utmost to those who you know would be good for it, and who would be willing to join you in that endeavor.