World of Warcraft®

honestly pen he did QQ /gquit or what ever it said i was telling him to quit

mainly do to the fact that getting treated like that because of a video game is dumb and no need to take it lol and honstly i understand were you are comeign from cause it is your guild but man shak helped hold this guild together while you were away and i know after talking to soem peopel that he made a few enemys in guild as everyone does but still man i wouldnt sit there and take it every other night.

It was an honor bear, you will always be my friend, and one of the best guild leaders I have played with, for the very reason that you were humble enough to see your faults and ask for a group consensus moving forward, that is integrity the essence of what allowed zen to flourish in a way never, ever, seen before... and maybe never again.

People contributed, everyone knew their position would be awarded on merit of their quality as opposed to playing favorites over hidden agenda's. Everyone knew that their opinions would be heard good or bad, Everyone knew that any decision made was for the greater good of this guilds players, and problems would be dealt with swiftly and fairly, we provided for them and they were there for us as we foraged ahead through the most difficult content this game has seen...

but this guild we constructed from ashes doesn't exist anymore, solitary unilateral authority given to someone who lets children drunk with the hint of opportunity run back and forth quoting supreme leader is best leader is disgusting.

While I do look forward to days we may play together again, I do not see myself ever coming back to zen, sure you may know pen as a guild leader, perhaps your leader that raised you into what you are, but perhaps also it is that that has clouded your judgement from the unacceptable close mindedness a system built upon rotten foundations and hidden agendas will bring.

You ask why I posted here, for all to see? because in a few sentences I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt everything I saw wrong with this guild.

The abusive immaturity and naivete displayed by players not even 3 days fresh. The arrogance of unelected leadership who appeals to nostalgia, in order to seize power. A generation of amateurs pandering straw arguments, logical fallacies and exaggeration in order to justify tyrannical policy in a positive view... and a never ending tirade of brown nosing posts meant to give opportunists a leg up on the competition for raid slots.

I considered letting the heat die down, leaving alts in the guild, in order to force rational discussion, but then I was stabbed in the back... and dragged through the mud... without fair representation, or an ounce of civility. That is what forced my hand.

and as a voice for those who dare not speak for themselves, I am fine becoming your villain.

I think we all are missing the real question here.

Why is someone named biggestbear a paladin!?!?!

He is a Bear in real life, he uses the Paladin as a cover up.

ad hominem surrounds like snakes at my feet.

we are all human, no man is god, and despite my opinion I still listen to what others have to say good or bad, and I work towards mutual consensus.... which is more than i could say about your actions.

Shakou, really man... get a grip.

This is merely a video game. An entertainment hobby at best.

Read back over everything you have typed into this thread. Ignore all of the replies, and just read the stuff that you have typed here.

The lashing out, the name calling, the things you are saying.

Seriously, take a good long look at the content of your posts.

Does this look like the writings of a well, whole person? A mature person, a leader person?

Is this an example of the integrity that you claim to have? Is this the language and substance of a rational person? Is this the sort of example and posture that a leader would exihibit?

Read Bear's post... he and others tried to help you get with the program man. We gave you every chance in the world to get yer head right. This crazy wallowing in despair and stuff that you are typing is not going to help you get over your loss.

Seriously, no malice intended... you really need to seek some help. Maybe you have a counseler or therapy provider that you can reach out to? This sort of rhetoric is not healthy, rational, or normal. Do yourself a favor and try to move on the best you can. You can type any stupid thing you want about me, but this isn't really about me now, is it? We need you to worry about You. And do whatever you need to do to get over this and get past it.

It's a shame things didn't work out for you, but this is not the end of the world.

Sincerely, no hard feelings. And do read back over your content in this thread and take a good critical look at what you have been typing. This is not normal or healthy, you really should calm your emotions and try to go on with your game hobby or find some other activity to take your mind someplace else for a while.

Serious man, snap out of it. Pull up yer big-boy panties and march off into a new day.

Nobody wants a sniveling crybaby for a leader, or a team mate, it just doesn't work. You can get over this, you really can. Man up, stand up, and stop all of this crybaby bull !@#$ and get on with yer life.

That's about the best advice I have fer ye. Use it, or not.... your choice. Move on, or wallow in yer self-pity. That's up to you man. I was over it the moment you nerd-rage gquit.

Edit: Apparantly "therapy provider" in a shorter form contains a banned word.

08/20/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Biggestbear

Zen was always Pen's guild. No matter who says differently.

Whatever happened to good ol' Jirriki? And Zen Raiders? And that mutiny?

08/21/2012 02:32 AMPosted by Penelopae

Edit: Apparantly "therapy provider" in a shorter form contains a banned word.

Totally worth reading through all this.

PS When I saw it had 3 pages I literally went and got food so I could enjoy the reading better.

@Salk - good ol' Jiriki was a waste of pixel bandwidth. Pen put him in charge, and he was found weak. So, he was removed. He isn't a raider, nor a leader, or even a decent tank. So yeah, he had to go. End of that story. Make no mistake, Pen was always in charge, founded the guild, and the previous one, and was the sole remaining ranking officer in the previous guild before that (that guild transfered out, Pen bought out the remaning assets including guild banks and shut the guilds down before founding Zen. <Old World Weekend> still survives as a storage bank.)

Now that Zen is celebrating its 3 year anniversary, we are still
Rockin' the Raid for All the Right Reasons.

@ Rophy - Hiya Rophy, how the heck is ye? SoE knows Drama, right?

When players can't keep their proverbial poo together well enough to simply show up to our events and get along with folks, we gotta get rid of them. Team work is essential for harmony and success. Any player that cannot get with the program then becomes detrimental to the process and therefore must be purged. It really is that simple - Show Up, or GTFO.

This does not apply to our non-raider members, obviously. But for those that want to be a part of the raid teams, they really must show up and get along with folks.

Now Shakou here, has in his own mind created some sort of delusional perception that he somehow "built Zen up from the ashes to make it so great and blah, blah, blah..." What a load of dookey. What ashes? He joined a perfectly successful guild and managed to alienate perfectly great players and position himself in a place of authority during my absence. Mind you now, this is a player with obvious people-skill issues and minimal experience in this game and raid content in general. And then.. ZOMG... Pen comes back. (From a well deserved break).

Yeah. Guess what? Pen runs a tight ship and does not tolerate emo crybaby bull!@#$ very well.
So yeah... clearly that becomes an issue for emo crybaby bull%^-* players. And thus, we have the spewage of emotional baggage and tears of pity on the forums.

Let this little episode stand as an example... Zen will not tolerate crybabies in our raid teams. Period. Shakou, get over it and move on. You could have played this better and gained a position back on our teams... but you're burning your bridges more and more with each pitiful crybaby post that you make here. Frankly, I doubt we'd have any interest in coddling or pampering your obvious enotional needs at this juncture.

Side bar: This is the kind of thing that I most certainly did not miss about WoW while I was away. Pathetic and sad, and still part of the experience when you play an MMO. Some things never change, clearly.

Hey Shakou...
Why don't you just do what every other reject has done in the past... You're so brilliant and all knowing, and such a skillfull leader and all that... start your own guild. Find a group of like-minded crybabies and start a new guild so that you can troll Zen in the forums and Tarde Channel until you become so ambarrassed at lack of progression that you must xsfer out. Like <Ego> and so many other splinter groups have done before.

That seems to be the pattern... And at least that way, the entire realm has some entertainment for a month or two.

Hey, just a suggestion. Tarde Channel is rather boring of late, so at least it'd liven things up again for a bit.

Or, we can just keep this thread alive and have fun with this for a while. It's kinda getting boring though, we really should inject some new excitement into it or I fear it may fade away into obscurity.

Thanks.

Pen? why are you crafting a view of me that is so entirely untrue. I have no emotions towards that guild anymore, no desires or aspirations, this is about me and you, and EVERYONE else you will push down and lock out because they have an opinion.

I know most of what has been said about me behind my back, and I know how the players that have defended me have been treated, and that is ridiculous, if it is just a game then don't bull !@#$ a bull %^-*ter.

I Left and posted a letter, and subsequently every additional post reinforced why I left, as I have not made a statement that was not later proven through the onslaught of comments your red guards lobbed.

Of course you want to spin me as the over emotional, sick, hypocritical weakness that should be cut from a guild, but the scary part for you is that I am the worst enemy the concept of your zen has seen in a year, calm collected intelligent with integral knowledge of the working parts and a small following that entirely agree's with me.

I don't have to create a guild, I don't have to take you on in unfair fight, I don't have to do anything. I aim not to tear your guild apart, so let your second face mellow, but I am here to be the insidious doubt that causes a single person to see through the frustration and misconceptions you sell in trade chat. assuming I can show maybe a few people what is really going on, and the quality of your "nostalgia" players then I have accomplished all that you and your ilk motivated me to.

A guild is for the people by the people in order to promote equality and prosperous venture, and your guild is so entirely not. when you came back i was furious as i sat and watched you devalue your players and completely disregard their desires, while laughing at the concept of an open forum where democracy ruled vice.

Immediately moving in and locking everyone out of enchanting mats, jewels, crafting mats & flasks, so that noone has access and noone can see what is being sold "for the good of the guild". these mats were donated freely by members in order to promote good will and progress... your actions are little more than blatant theft.

Disabling democratically agreed upon guild repairs, so that you can buy mats that your guild members farmed at 20 % of the cost with guild gold is low, but what is even worse is that you turned around and cornered AH markets to turn a profit, that until i left had not been put back into the guild.

putting unqualified people in heroic raids to waste my time, while telling me i don't know what i was talking about was just the tipping point, I have eyes on all your dirty laundry.. embezzling and money laundering are just choking points.

Any guild where someone just comes and takes everything saying I am best leader anyone who disagree's is immediately kicked is disgusting.

That is all I have to say, unless you force my hand further. because I am sitting on a mountain of sins that I have No problem bringing light to about each and every one of your trusted red guards.

Shakou Shakou Shikyo

Anyone mind if I use this Forum to make a Made for TV, Spy Drama. it is very good.
but in all honesty, much of this forum has been kinda silly. but good points have still been brought up and I think all parties should probably step back and look at what was said. I think much can be learn from it all.

Thank you all those I call friends, may Introspection be the stepping stones to progressing and growth. Alasdair (Heroic Raider of Zen)

You pleasure me.

I knew you would not resist the call.

You must maintain this thread; it is your last pathetic means of gaining the attention of anyone who even remotely cares.

By singing your swan song in public, you risk the peril of reprisal. Or, bored sarcasm seekers that enjoy making game of the venue. You assumed that risk when you posted a troll shot at attention.

This troll-post attack on me personally as a player, guild leader, and person has gained my attention.

My own feelings have gone through a few degrees.

At first, “yeah, the kid suffers ill health and maybe I was a little much for him… …but, I did give him every chance in the world to get right.”

And then, it went to, “This really is kinda sad, and has gone beyond a polite departure. “

And then, “Whoa, this guy is continuously creepin’ me out with the depth of issues and emotional outbursts. This guy has problems that I am unwilling to be responsible for in my game or guild experience. I am not a nurse and cannot be expected to play that role in my hobby time.”

But hey, it’s the interwebz and folks can type whatever they like, right?

Freedom of speech, free will, all that jazz.

So I’ll be yer interwebz trolled buttercup baby.

Ima cherry-pick and poke, prod, and pretty much giggle my !@# off at this shiz yo. Keep it coming, or yer swan-song will die.

…and I know how the players that have defended me have been treated…

*Imaginary friends are leet.

…I am the worst enemy the concept of your zen has seen…

Define the term, “not a good fit” much?

… a small following that entirely agree's with me…

Sounds like the makings a fine new splinter cell of Zen. We’ve spawned plenty of upstart guilds. Take yer lot of like-minded and politely *kiss off. (*k=p, Chef Gordon Ramsey reference)
And then again, Imaginary friends are leet. (*previous comment, Penelopae reference)

…you turned around and cornered AH markets to turn a profit…

I really am that leet, fo rizzle. And I giggle my $%^ off about it.

… I have eyes on all your dirty laundry…

Good deal. I like my t-shirts and boxers folded neatly, and I like the jeans and button shirts on hangers. Please do not put your hands on my suits or silk, m’k? thx

…embezzling and money laundry are just choking points...

Yikes! You have uncovered my offshore toon accounts on the Cayman realms?

…That is all I have to say, unless you force my hand further…

*Jedi Mind Trick – force hand. Double-dog-dare mode active. Status= Bring It

*yawn*

Shakou, your physical handicap is not what prevents you from enjoying a positive role in our guild community and raid events. It is an emotional issue that you can indeed overcome. I cannot do that for you, it must come from within.

We welcome you to endeavor in that healing process. We will mold and caress you into the Zen way. You could come out looking like a glazed doughnut if you wiggle just right.

=)

08/21/2012 11:57 AMPosted by Shikyø

but the scary part for you is that I am the worst enemy the concept of your zen has seen in a year

LOLOLOLOLOLOL you are the worst enemy? lol hotsauce and skooby have ended more than 2 days+ of raid time with crashing vents, trolling, etc. We have talked about you in vent for a total of mabye 30 mins. How exactly are you zen's "worst" enemy?

I was personally more of a threat to zen than any of trolls from the begging of zen till now. Because of the simple fact I know every members weak points, I know who is friends, and who is not. I have informants in over 5 guilds that give me info when needed. It might have been for the fact that the guild was split over who liked me and who did not lol. I could get zen's vent, in zen's guild or talk to anyone in the guild personally anytime I wanted. I was told I stopped a night of raiding because I sat in a vent of a guild I was in and you all spent the night arguing about what should be done

You sir are no enemy of zen, nor are you a bad person. Pen has even offered to let you back in if you do what you are told.

I am sorry buddy but I just wanted to clear up the thought that you think you are a "enemy". When reality you are just a friend to the guild that is mad over new leadership. have a great day! =D

..and Who doesn't like Doughnuts, right?

Doughnuts are almost as good as meatballs.

Doughnuts... mmm.

Great big hole in the middle, and cream covered all over...

Mm... DONUTZ

nothing you say will change the fact that your actions in two weeks have devalued your players, disrespected their opinions, and profited with funds, loot, and quality that you yourself did not earn.

I don't need to fight you. I have already won, because I don't have to fight for them against you any longer. They know my opinions and now it is only a matter of time before they see it for what it is or you pay them off. Either way... not my problem.

If I do stick around on this server you bet your !@# I will lead raids and promote quality in whatever post mist Guild rivals what you call zen, I know all your methods, I know all the tricks, I know how to prevent you from success by bolstering any and all guilds that want said information, I am your enemy because wherever I go will become better than anything your authoritarian policies will offer, or your dime a dozen recruiting will create.

and as far as a small group... i will not name names but when they are a silent majority of your core group you better believe they matter... or you are more of a fool than I thought you to be.

good luck with progression have a nice day, I certainly will now that I get my life back.

woot drama

anyway just a game get over it :P

^^ this! sadly this is also a false statement at the same time, cuz there are real people behind each char. =( people still get butt hurt over games =(

…that you yourself did not earn….

Pretty selfish and ungrateful words coming from a WoW newbie with no gear or raid experience… that was accepted into a well-established and successful guild and provided with plentiful opportunities.

…I know all your methods, I know all the tricks…

Translation: “Thank you Zen for gearing me up and teaching me how to be a raider.”

No worries, and you are welcome. We’ve trained literally hundreds and hundreds just like you. About 3% let it go to their heads and begin thinking they are God’s gift to WoW, just like you have done. It’s not unusual, and those players rarely actually get very far because of it.

…I know how to prevent you from success by bolstering any and all guilds that want said information, I am your enemy because wherever I go…

You are not unique on this realm, as I said; hundreds have been provided the same training.

And besides, if we suck so bad, and are such a fail guild… why would anyone want to know our super-secret *gasp* methods anyway?

It seems as if the currency you flaunt may be flawed, yes?

Either you are good because of your training and opportunities in Zen… and that is your one seemingly credible claim to fame… or…

...or you suck terribly because of learning in a very fail guild, right?

… or your dime a dozen recruiting will create…

Are you standing proof of bad recruitment practices?

Didn’t you accept an invitation into a guild that was good to you, and provided you with opportunities that you most certainly had not experienced prior to that invitation?

Are you saying that by accepting any unknown new player that comes along with no gear or experience is a bad recruiting practice? Is this what you are saying?

By golly… you may very well be onto something…

Perhaps you could pose as our poster child for that?

Oh wait…

I don't think i have ever been so GROSSLY misrepresented... I am at a loss for words, is this how you and your dogs will treat all veterans? is this how you treat others who contributed so much to "your" guild? because that means you are not a good person or very bright... since much of what you type dissembles into pandering for an audience.

I've played this game since NA Release, shakou is a day 1 toon that raided molten core black wing lair, AQ 40, and Naxx... I only transfered to this server to play with friends after i graduated college... I have more seniority in running guilds than you, but you are ignorant of my history, so i'll let it slide.

as you are personally attacking me which is a logical fallacy called ad hominem, instead of defending your crimes against the good people of zen while stroking your massive inferiority complex for fear they see you for what you are, I'm done here... your posts speak volumes about the bloviating back slapping malignant nature of your personality... and if you want the last word I am glad to let you have it... seeing as how you have nothing better to do and you cant survive without an audience.

and the sad thing is... people like you are a dime a dozen, on every server i've been to, every guild ive been in, there has always been one greed driven troll that gears himself ahead of others, steals from the guild bank, acts with perceived self importance to unite the banners under his totalitarian authority. yet you call me out... because I dared zen to be different... to be better. Zen lost nothing special in me... maybe gear and precision tanking, but with you they lost everything...

if zen is pen and pen is zen, may god have mercy on my friends, until then my moment ends, they'll stand above him the better men.