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You know what would be cooler than playing a character who's a dragon, is sophisticated and seems to have a lot of mystery behind them?

Playing said character, except they're not a dragon. Making them a dragon kind of takes away from their awesome characteristics. I find the most awesome RPers to be ones who can play the race they rolled, and play them well.

You don't play a Dragon because they're "Cool". You play a Dragon because they're required for a Storyline, or you want to play something challenging. You want to take something that is derided because so many people do it terribly bad, and be one of the few that do it well. Being a Dragon character does not automatically make you bad. Only being bad makes you bad.

I think people need to keep in mind the difference between lore PLAUSIBLE and lore IMPOSSIBLE.

Palehoof, you specifically stated that playing a dragon was like playing Darth Vader, a Cylon, Vulcan, etc. But you're forgetting one crucial fact.

There is evidence in lore of dragons existing and taking on mortal form. Those other things do not even exist in game, therefore that takes it into the realm of LORE IMPOSSIBLE. Whereas anyone can say, "Is it possible at some point in time in Azeroth that a dragon took on a mortal guise and got into some shenanigans?"

Personally, I am very open minded. I have played multiple MMOs and played WoW since release and been RPing for almost 15 years. If someone comes to me and can show me they used reason and logic and worked to make the character lore PLAUSIBLE and BELIEVABLE I will give them a lot of credit. I may not always be able to RP with them, but I will just go my separate way.

To the person who said a dragon in mortal guise being the same for thousands of years...well, they wouldn't be in the same form for thousands of years! They're -shapeshifters- who can take on many forms. They just have preferred forms, is all.

My main is a druid, and even though in lore it says druids can take on any animal shape they are familiar with, mechanics wise I am limited to bear/cat/cheetah/seal/crow. Back in vanilla people still RPed Druids of the Talon and claimed their travel form was really a crow. Because it was lore plausible, but not impossible. The use of flag RSP addons really helped.

Palehoof, sorry to bring you up again, you just have the most memorable arguments!...the one thing I really disagree with and it's probably my interpreting poorly, is based on your logic for only being able to play what we're presented at the log in screen...means my character can only ever wear or have on them whatever I can physically own and display. It means every character had the same story as the intro video. It means even though I can wear wings, they aren't visible to other players unless we're inspected.

Is it just me or does it seem like people forget to use their imagination? In a virtual world it is much harder to wrap our minds around what we can only half see. We are given the setting, the races, the armor...but for roleplay we must imagine facial gestures, body language, tone of voice and accent, trinkets, scars, tattoos, pets (gosh I wish my bird pets would land on my shoulder once in a while!).

I think it's good to use the game as a baseline, but to also be flexible with allowances. The use of flag mods is a big help, as well as descriptive posts. We just always have to be courteous to other players no matter the situation, and realize that since it can't be seen instantly they may not realize what's going on. OOCly, or better yet ICly, catch them up!

Your character is wounded and missing a leg, Johnny Test walks in and only sees you silent because you're between posts with your character sitting on the floor and someone kneeling nearby. He's not going to have a clue what's going on, until someone posts to explain the scene.

Some people won't believe you and that's FINE. Let them not believe you, in fact, if you play a dragon or something sort of out there and they don't believe you ICly...all the better for your character!

Rule of thumb, no matter what you play, is don't expect everyone to like your RP no matter how plain jane, middle of the road, awesome, or way out in the left field it is. Don't force them if they back off IC or OOCly. This virtual space is big enough that we can all share it without bothering one another. :)

Edit: I just wanted to ask a general question...I know that a lot of people have formed bad opinions of Dragon Roleplayers based on, well...bad dragon RP. But there's always going to be more bad RP of ANYTHING YOU NAME than good RP...but to those who disagree with dragons and you basically believe that you "get what you choose at character creation"...how do you feel about things like...humans not from Stormwind? Or non-Darkspear trolls?

About to go to bed, will come back tomorrow. I have no problem whatsoever with your view point. Like I said, there's enough space to play and some people like something more dramatic and fantasy esque and some RPers will be more prone to touching on character depth within the confines of what's given us.

I think there's really no right or wrong, just different preferences, you know?

I think it really depends on how a dragon character is presented. You talk about being all powerful as a dragon, but what if they're not? I knew someone who RPed as an ancient, toothless wyrm who'd grown overweight in their mortal guise and had their wings torn off eons ago. Some people might roll their eyes, but this person pulled it off very well (this was back on Feathermoon in my beginning days).

A player named somethingsomethingastrasz and yelling about how his mother will defeat Deathwing or some such blatant and obvious RP isn't bad, but it's not going to get much respect. Whereas someone who has preplanned within a group that one of them will be a dragon and the others will ICly know but the unit keeps it as a secret from other RPers can still have that creative flair without stifling other people.

Like you said, a good dragon RPer means you might not know about it...but that doesn't mean that within a close circle of friends it doesn't happen or is bad. To me, it doesn't matter what YOU RP...only that others accept it. We can't RP without other people responding or interacting with us. Well, we can, but that's more like solo story/fanfictioning...

It really depends on making it believable. For me, that line can be something like...I may believe a player is RPing a dragon in disguise, but I'll scoff at night elves born on Teldrassil or in Darnassus who claim to be older than 8 or so years of age.

I forget what it's called, I think suspension of disbelief. It's a magical world, but yes there are limits. Unfortunately, as players from a wide spectrum of backgrounds and personalities...and even from server to server...each community is going to be more or less accepting of certain things, as are each individual.

We all have the right to play anything we want to, really. If you find people to play along, more power to you! But a lot of times for something that people usually balk at before even giving you a chance (like a dragon or demon being the main two that are brought up) then do your homework and accept that there will be failures in branching out your RP and getting others to agree to believe what you paint your character as being.

IMO, it's not so much about what a character plays...as how they play it. That includes OOC attitude. If you march up, claim your character is XYZ and I go "Uhhhh, no. It's not." Don't try to force your concept on me. Chances are, there's something I've played that others don't like.

One big debate, for instance, is "can druids talk in animal forms" where there is a BUNCH of so-called evidence in game play and the stories for us to draw enough inferences to say anything from "yes, no, only through telepathy or special communication devices" or something inbetween.

Just, be cautious, people who want to play dragons. At the very least, have thick skin. I would suggest if you are easily offended or insulted or driven to arguments, this is NOT the ideal character concept for you to play.

...doh, tried to be short but I rambled. I love intelligent debate/conversation, darn you!

I know you think you're doing a good thing for roleplayers, Tavelian, but you aren't. Honestly. From what I've seen from your story, and the way you've RP'ed you're still in the learning stage. I've seen quite a few instances of lore breaking in your guild story, from your members, and from you. Just take it slow and try not to be some godsend to the roleplaying community.

I know you intend to roleplay a dragon in Cataclysm, or at least that's what you said a few months back on the old forums, but don't. Please. Wyrmrest Accord doesn't need more of that bad Silvermoon roleplay that it has so much of now.

I think the personal attacks are a little uncalled for. Technically, every one is learning. Just because you don't agree with his RPing and that he is human and makes mistakes doesn't mean that the advice he's trying to give is invalid.

He made some very good points and let people know the basics and the standard "do nots" of RPing something a bit more out there. So please, argue against the idea, against the plausibility, against just personal standards of what's appropriate or not to play in game...

But don't argue solely because you dislike a person's RP. Be constructive, not insulting. Because personally, I would rather RP with someone with his attitude than yours ATM.

I know you think you're doing a good thing for roleplayers, Tavelian, but you aren't. Honestly. From what I've seen from your story, and the way you've RP'ed you're still in the learning stage. I've seen quite a few instances of lore breaking in your guild story, from your members, and from you. Just take it slow and try not to be some godsend to the roleplaying community.

I know you intend to roleplay a dragon in Cataclysm, or at least that's what you said a few months back on the old forums, but don't. Please. Wyrmrest Accord doesn't need more of that bad Silvermoon roleplay that it has so much of now.

I take offense from that.
If you're basing my roleplaying skill back a few months ago on the old forums, then you don't know how good I am now.
I scrapped the dragon plan a long time ago.
Lore breaking? Tell me how we've broken lore.
I'm not trying to be a godsend to the roleplaying community. I'm trying to do some people a favor to point them to less risky roleplay.
I've been roleplaying on and off for three years. However, I started actually roleplaying on WoW about 3 months ago. I know most of what I'm doing, but no matter how great of a roleplayer you are there's no such thing as being the best, and thats not what I believe myself to be at all.

It's been a while since my plans for Tavelian were finally finalized. I had multiple personalities on this character before I finally picked one (Shattered Sun paladin, ordinary paladin, traveler, Michael Jackson...etc.). Perhaps you'll want to find me later, as you're the first person to attack me personally like this in-game or out.

I think the personal attacks are a little uncalled for. Technically, every one is learning. Just because you don't agree with his RPing and that he is human and makes mistakes doesn't mean that the advice he's trying to give is invalid.

With controversial topics such as this, I believe that only the best and most experienced roleplayers should be giving advice. Not someone who's been roleplaying for a few months at most. I know I came off a bit strong, but that's just how I am. :)

But don't argue solely because you dislike a person's RP. Be constructive, not insulting. Because personally, I would rather RP with someone with his attitude than yours ATM.

I don't RP with random strangers. :D You're making it out to seem like I disowned him and said he was the worst roleplayer I've ever seen. All I said is that I don't think he's quite ready to be making guides for controversial topics.

If you're basing my roleplaying skill back a few months ago on the old forums, then you don't know how good I am now.

I'm basing your roleplaying from what I've seen when I happen to see you around the cities. I idle in SMC when I'm not raiding so I happen to see a lot of what goes on around there.

Lore breaking? Tell me how we've broken lore.

I suppose "breaking" lore is a bit harsh. I have seen your friend Gabhriel and crew roleplay things that are a bit of a stretch. Such as one of your troll DK buddies being a demon hunter, and Gabriehl just being Gabriehl.

As for you personally, there are a few things in your blogs that seem a bit whacky. Such as using Karazhan as your own "home base" or having spoken with medivh, and drinking from the Sunwell, considering the Sunwell isn't an actual well. It's made of pure energy. I know it's a story but I would still try and keep from directly involving major NPC's and what not. And the fact that you said you roleplayed a uh..spanish conquistador once. That just seemed silly.

I'm not trying to be a godsend to the roleplaying community. I'm trying to do some people a favor to point them to less risky roleplay.

I was on a rant for this part, you can hate me for that.

I've been roleplaying on and off for three years. However, I started actually roleplaying on WoW about 3 months ago. I know most of what I'm doing, but no matter how great of a roleplayer you are there's no such thing as being the best, and thats not what I believe myself to be at all.

true there is no best, but there are some that are better than others in terms of knowing lore and general creative writing. I just don't think 3 months of roleplaying is enough to go off and start writing guides. Sorry.

It's been a while since my plans for Tavelian were finally finalized. I had multiple personalities on this character before I finally picked one (Shattered Sun paladin, ordinary paladin, traveler, Michael Jackson...etc.). Perhaps you'll want to find me later, as you're the first person to attack me personally like this in-game or out.

There's no reason to be so dramatic. I gave some strong opinions. I didn't "attack" you. Again. it's nothing personal. You seem to be taking what I said the wrong way. I'm just giving my brutally honest opinion.

You know what would be cooler than playing a character who's a dragon, is sophisticated and seems to have a lot of mystery behind them?

Playing said character, except they're not a dragon. Making them a dragon kind of takes away from their awesome characteristics. I find the most awesome RPers to be ones who can play the race they rolled, and play them well.

You don't play a Dragon because they're "Cool". You play a Dragon because they're required for a Storyline, or you want to play something challenging. You want to take something that is derided because so many people do it terribly bad, and be one of the few that do it well. Being a Dragon character does not automatically make you bad. Only being bad makes you bad.

Well said.

I play a troll Demon that isn't a sexstarved Succubus, and I got a couple whispers extolling me for not being failbad.
It also helps I'm above 71 and people see I'm at least Outland-leveled, so the story my character gives actually makes sense. (Corruption via Shadowmoon).

But this isn't about demons.

I'm just saying that it CAN be done!

Ok, so I just watched someone fail RP a dragon. He /e the transformation, and said that all attacks were invalid.
He said he was Deathwing's Right Hand dragon.
He said he was part of the SW attack with the wind and water eles.
And he said that Worgen would aid the Alliance ICly. Luckily, he got banned from capital cities for quite a while.
But roleplaying a dragon takes years of practice with lore-facts, and RPing. You must know your lroe and what you're going to do. Never reveal the Cata facts, because obviously, no one knows what the hell is going on. So people will screenshot you and say their cousin is a GM and they will ban them.
So, yeah. There is no telling what the world of crap-RPers will bring us.

Successfully RPing a dragon means you must not talk about it, but what happens if two person who are RPing as dragons, note that both of them are great RPers, never found out about each other.

In the actual lore wouldn't they be able to actually recognise the other one as a dragon?

If one of them sucessfully shrouded their personality, the other dragon couldn't find out for maybe a year. lucky if 2.

Successfully RPing a dragon means you must not talk about it, but what happens if two person who are RPing as dragons, note that both of them are great RPers, never found out about each other.

In the actual lore wouldn't they be able to actually recognise the other one as a dragon?

A Dragon would recognize a Dragon, lorewise. OoCly, if you don't know, then there's no way your character can know. Maybe they just weren't paying attention.

If one of them sucessfully shrouded their personality, the other dragon couldn't find out for maybe a year. lucky if 2.

.... I would like it if you didn't talk any more.

I'm basing your roleplaying from what I've seen when I happen to see you around the cities. I idle in SMC when I'm not raiding so I happen to see a lot of what goes on around there.

Lore breaking? Tell me how we've broken lore.

I suppose "breaking" lore is a bit harsh. I have seen your friend Gabhriel and crew roleplay things that are a bit of a stretch. Such as one of your troll DK buddies being a demon hunter, and Gabriehl just being Gabriehl.

As for you personally, there are a few things in your blogs that seem a bit whacky. Such as using Karazhan as your own "home base" or having spoken with medivh, and drinking from the Sunwell, considering the Sunwell isn't an actual well. It's made of pure energy. I know it's a story but I would still try and keep from directly involving major NPC's and what not. And the fact that you said you roleplayed a uh..spanish conquistador once. That just seemed silly.

Drishas, the troll DK in question, is a bit of a dolt. But, oddly enough, his roleplay worked (slightly).
I never did see what was wrong with Gabe's roleplay. He's pretty casual, and the only thing I would criticize is his MRP where he's taller than a tauren.
The blog, however, isn't the actual guild storyline. We never really used Karazhan as a home base, but more of a place to simply roleplay at.
How'd you find out about the Spanish Conquistador? ._.
Yes, I failed with the Sunwell lore. The beginning is rather corny.
My ego has been crushed once again. I'm going to go cry in a corner now. :P

I always wondered why people liked dragons so much. I want to RP a gryphon, personally.

Drishas, the troll DK in question, is a bit of a dolt. But, oddly enough, his roleplay worked (slightly).
I never did see what was wrong with Gabe's roleplay. He's pretty casual, and the only thing I would criticize is his MRP where he's taller than a tauren.
The blog, however, isn't the actual guild storyline. We never really used Karazhan as a home base, but more of a place to simply roleplay at.
How'd you find out about the Spanish Conquistador? ._.
Yes, I failed with the Sunwell lore. The beginning is rather corny.
My ego has been crushed once again. I'm going to go cry in a corner now. :P

Wow, what horrid RP. I now direct you to the Mary Sue Litmus Test. go ahead and tell us your score, and be honest about it.

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

That's really not all that bad?

That's really not all that bad?

Let's let the test decide that. It's a good checker for characters that either you or others think are a bit much. Perfect? No, but it's about 95% accurate.

That still doesn't change that it's really not that bad. And "OMG WHAT HORRID RP" is what I think the thread is trying to avoid, is it not?

Edit: I took the test, Slaye here got a 6. :x