World of Warcraft®

From what I'm reading on the stuff they've released now that the NDA on the MoP press tour has been lifted, it sounds like the Ebon Sanction might get its wish: the Horde and Alliance are taking Garrosh out at the end of Mists of Pandaria!

It's good to know we're already on the right track. ;)

Unclear if he dies or is just removed as warchief. Also unclear is who will replace him, though I presume Thrall. I'm happy he'll be getting a beating either way, but won't be fully satisfied until Sylvanas shares his fate.

Wonder if Thrall would return. If Vol'jin gets through this expansion unscathed, he might step up as the next Warchief. Could be Cairne's son too, perhaps. Or it'll be someone else I don't know.

03/19/2012 08:56 AMPosted by Kiloaeda

Unclear if he dies or is just removed as warchief. Also unclear is who will replace him, though I presume Thrall. I'm happy he'll be getting a beating either way, but won't be fully satisfied until Sylvanas shares his fate.

Personally, I think the only good ex-Warchief is a dead ex-Warchief...especially in the case of Garrosh. He will not step down if he is alive, not even if Thrall returned to resume power. Given that Thrall is now the most powerful being on Azeroth (Orc Jesus, I think, is the preferred term), putting him back in the Warchief's throne would make the "Horde bias" screamers scream even louder. I don't think he will be coming back.

I mentioned this on the forums for Wowpedia, and I have a couple of theories: We know that Baine and Vol'jin are probably the two people who have the biggest bone to pick with Garrosh. Baine, of course, would want to take him down because Garrosh (fairly or not) killed his father, and Vol'jin (pretty much from the troll starting area onward) sees Garrosh for what he truly is - a tank-brained warmonger. I think that of the two, however, Vol'jin may well be the chief initiator of the Horde's coup against Garrosh, and may take the position for himself upon Garrosh's death. Of course, if they wanted to maintain an orc Warchief, you could go with one of the older and wiser veterans, like Eitrigg or Saurfang. (People have been going "Saurfang for Warchief" long enough, certainly.)

Then there's Sylvanas. I feel it entirely possible that the Banshee Queen may take advantage of the situation with Garrosh gone. Either she'll take direct control, or she'll manipulate the circumstances to put an Undercity-controlled puppet on the Warchief's throne. Either way, it would allow her to use the Forsaken Blight whenever she wanted without having the orcish overlords looking over her shoulder.

I should point out, as of now, the Horde has no reason to want to de-throne Garrosh.

At least, no more reason than the Alliance has to de-throne Varian. Sure, they're both warmongers. Sure, they're both brash.

However, this expansion has been one of character development for Garrosh. He's become a competent leader, and done /well/ by his people. While the people of Westfall starve, Garrosh has put a roof over all of his people's heads, and food on their plates.

He's also taken a stronger stance against demons within the Horde (granted, most Horde races have a strong reason to hate the Legion these days, even Forsaken), likely a good thing. He also does not tolerate war criminals, in /any/ way. Garrosh doesn't want to destroy, or even scar the world - even Stonetalon was not the will of the Warchief.

So, in order for the /Horde/ to turn against Garrosh, there's got to be some new development. Either they'll be lazy, and he'll go ~inexplicably crazy~, or they'll do something with one of the things noted in the press release:

'Unwary mortals can also become possessed by negative Sha energy, becoming embodiments of pure anger or fear.'

That'd be my best bet.

As for who takes up the reins of Warchief, I'd imagine it'll be someone Orcish. Thrall, maybe. Metzen did say he'd be rejoining the Horde in one way or another. Saurfang, perhaps, as he was the -first- to tell Garrosh that if he stepped out of line, he was dead. Vol'jin and Baine are also possibilities. There's also the possibility of a new character, though I doubt people are much interested in having a Warchief we barely know. Eitrigg's probably too vested in the Crusade.

Also, I'm just glad Sylvanas isn't getting the 'omg she's evil, kill her' treatment after /all the Forsaken quests/ explain exactly why she does what she does, and how she's not evil.

I feel...I feel...

I feel vindicated. I mean, really cutting-edge here!

Man, this next expansion is going to be FUN.

I feel...I feel...

I feel vindicated. I mean, really cutting-edge here!

Man, this next expansion is going to be FUN.

I do agree with that, and I look forward to the (hopefully) good reason they come up with to make the Horde turn against Garrosh.

Either way, I feel vindicated with my guild's RP story relating to Garrosh (and, hopefully, Sylvanas). Some great story development coming, and a great reason to hate Garrosh and have everyone take him down, whatever that reason winds up being.

Awesome stuff, Blizzard. This puppy knight approves.

I just want to ask everyone to do one very important thing with this information:

Do. Not. Meta-game.

You didn't "see this coming!"
You didn't "know it all along!"
You didn't "foresee this years ago!"
You didn't "instantly connect the dots!"

For once. FOR ONCE. Let the story line play out appropriately. If we can all do that, maybe we can incorporate whatever happens in an good way. Hell, maybe we can (Alliance and Horde) get some good war stories out of it. Who knows what will happen. But meta-gaming to further your cause (again, Alliance and Horde) is just going to ruin it's potential.

((Admittedly, I'm interested to see how this turns out, and how they transition him into an enemy character. I agree with the opinion that he's a warmonger, but he's become a whole lot more competent as time's gone on, and he's not a half-bad warchief now. I'm curious to see how plot-wise he turns around.))

Personally, I think the only good ex-Warchief is a dead ex-Warchief...especially in the case of Garrosh. He will not step down if he is alive, not even if Thrall returned to resume power. Given that Thrall is now the most powerful being on Azeroth (Orc Jesus, I think, is the preferred term), putting him back in the Warchief's throne would make the "Horde bias" screamers scream even louder. I don't think he will be coming back.

I see your point from the perspective of the game's story proceeding in a logical way and have speculated that both Garrosh and Varian (and Sylvanas) would try to prevent Thrall from taking back the horde precisely because he is too personally powerful to be allowed to influence the delicate balance of power either way. On the other hand, the developers are very much in love with the character. His family might die in an attempt to stop his return (easy come, easy go; Aggra we hardly knew ye), but Thrall will be with us a long while yet and he's not so neutral as Malfuiron. He will go back to the horde. As the most powerful member of the horde the title Warchief fits him.

03/19/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Saavedro

Then there's Sylvanas. I feel it entirely possible that the Banshee Queen may take advantage of the situation with Garrosh gone. Either she'll take direct control, or she'll manipulate the circumstances to put an Undercity-controlled puppet on the Warchief's throne. Either way, it would allow her to use the Forsaken Blight whenever she wanted without having the orcish overlords looking over her shoulder.

.

With Orgrimmar under siege, the Kor Kron can hardly be spared to guard allies. Seems like the ideal time for Sylvanas to 'find' a few new subjects. But does she push West again or South, or would she dare to go East? Andorhal has fallen. Sylvanas thinks all of Lordaeron belongs to her, but there's the problem of the Argent Dawn and Ebon Blade keeping independent (and neutral) strongholds in the plaguelands. Heroic Scholo and Scarlet Monastery are on the way, so something is afoot in that corner of the world.

Also... 11th character slot. Woo!

Eslyn brings up a valid point. This'll dovetail nicely, for instance, with Ragefang's perspective on Garrosh, but it doesn't mean Rage "saw it coming". I've been calling for a bit now for the Horde to disavow their Warchief, and indicated that if they'll do so, as well as remove Sylvanas Windrunner, he'll cease his own war-making efforts.

It'll be easy when the final patch of MoP comes to say "It's about time King Wrynn got to moving on this", but as Eslyn pointed out, we don't have room to really prognosticate about it right now.

Right now, Rage just gets to make war on the Horde. ;)

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Eslyn. A-side, a lot of guilds have been ramping up the "war" just because that's the trend in the community. As for my newspaper, I assure you that I'm not an insider and this reveal is very refreshing. I've been planning this project for over a year; I just never had time to do it until recently.

I for one am glad that I have not been and will not be wasting my time. If it's metagaming for me, OOC, to breathe a sigh of relief and know I'm not going to have to turn my character's printing press from newspapers to engraved apologies to Garrosh, then call me a God Mode Sue, because darn it, I'm happy.

And I think that goes for everyone else who has participated in the War Council and other events. It's nice not to have to disband/repurpose your guild just because of an expansion. I've had to do it twice now on my main, and it's not fun.

I see your point from the perspective of the game's story proceeding in a logical way and have speculated that both Garrosh and Varian (and Sylvanas) would try to prevent Thrall from taking back the horde precisely because he is too personally powerful to be allowed to influence the delicate balance of power either way. On the other hand, the developers are very much in love with the character. His family might die in an attempt to stop his return (easy come, easy go; Aggra we hardly knew ye), but Thrall will be with us a long while yet and he's not so neutral as Malfuiron. He will go back to the horde. As the most powerful member of the horde the title Warchief fits him.

I should point out Sylvanas is rather indebted to Thrall, and likely prefers him over Garrosh, so I highly doubt she'd try to prevent his return.

I have to agree with Rage and Esy, yeah.

Sure, there's war, blah blah, but let's not metagame and go "OOOH I TOLD YOU SO, I KNEW IT ALL ALONG."

We had plenty of people spouting off that Deathwing was coming before everyone knew IC about Deathwing.

It was pretty much a killjoy. Knowing about it made it less suspenseful, and less of a surprise IC, ruining the storytelling aspect.

Also, about the end of the expac.

It would be the perfect time to remind us about the Legion.

As in, Sylvie, now seeing the back of the Horde broken, makes a deal with Sargeras. And he shows up. Now it's not Alliance vs. Horde; it's Azeroth vs. Legion.

Welcome to World of Warcraft: Oh Crap It's a Titan Get in the Car! Expansion due in 2014.

Since we're already nearing the previously indicated maximum level cap (100), it'd be a great expansion to end the saga.

Again, the entire Forsaken areas explain that Sylvanas is /not/ evil, and has reason for her actions - and was recently backstabbed by a Nath'rezim. I highly ever doubt that she'd make a deal with the Legion - it goes against what is good for her people, which is the reason for all she does.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Eslyn. A-side, a lot of guilds have been ramping up the "war" just because that's the trend in the community. As for my newspaper, I assure you that I'm not an insider and this reveal is very refreshing. I've been planning this project for over a year; I just never had time to do it until recently.

I for one am glad that I have not been and will not be wasting my time. If it's metagaming for me, OOC, to breathe a sigh of relief and know I'm not going to have to turn my character's printing press from newspapers to engraved apologies to Garrosh, then call me a God Mode Sue, because darn it, I'm happy.

And I think that goes for everyone else who has participated in the War Council and other events. It's nice not to have to disband/repurpose your guild just because of an expansion. I've had to do it twice now on my main, and it's not fun.

Stop taking things personal. I don't even know what your newspaper is.

I'm more talking about the people who, for example, were going "Hum... there's earthquakes going on. I bet DEATHWING is going to come back. Yep. I bet." Then Cata launches are are all "HA! I KNEW IT! I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!" These are the things I'm talking about. These are the things that kill any decent RP going on.

What I fully expect to happen is people, today, starting to go "Hm... so I bet Garrosh is going to go crazy. Probably plotting some War Crimes." MoP will come out, and the same people will go "Hey, I bet Garrosh is going to do this evil evil thing, because he's going to get Sha possessed!" Then the final patch comes out and they go "I KNEW IT!"

Don't meta-game. If you want to do an "Ah ha!" moment to yourself, OOCly, great. Go ahead. But don't use this OOC knowledge, that has absolutely zero indication of happening in the current (known) game lore to further your cause.

03/19/2012 03:20 PMPosted by Vanyris

Again, the entire Forsaken areas explain that Sylvanas is /not/ evil, and has reason for her actions - and was recently backstabbed by a Nath'rezim. I highly ever doubt that she'd make a deal with the Legion - it goes against what is good for her people, which is the reason for all she does.

As I was once told about the business in Camp Taurajo: Evil is as evil does.

Think about it.

As I was once told about the business in Camp Taurajo: Evil is as evil does.

Think about it.

I see no way, whatsoever, that that applies to Taurajo.