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So, everyone less than 10,000 years old? Or....

Or there's no such thing as word of mouth? Or the fact that this changes absolutely nothing about their relationship with Elune? Or that they can still point to Cenarius and say they were shaped in Elune's image.

Night Elves recount the tale of being created, being blind and unable to see in the night, then the moon's light illuminated the night, allowing them to see. Then Elune blessed them with nightvision.

This changes nothing. Night Elves are still Elune's chosen, they're still her children. This isn't like if there was suddenly proof of evolution IRL. Elune has had contact with the Night Elves, she's blessed them. Her son is walking around.

There would be no crisis of faith.

04/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Lito

That's hilarious if it turns out that way after blizzard having left it undefined for years. It's pulling the rug out from us, but our characters really can't act like it is a new revelation.

Yea I'm so conflicted. I like how they do have more savage roots to prove we're not like nocturnal humans. You know? It's fun.

Here's an old source I feel is relevant about the Night elves thinking the Trolls were wrong about where they came from, it was back in classic WoW when those AV quests were around. One of the big reasons people made theories that Night elves came from Trolls because Blizzard were the ones who seeded it in back when Alterac Valley was put into the game. o:
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=7365/staghelms-requiem
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=7361

04/03/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Roanmara

No I know what your saying. Creation myth yadda yadda yadda but the new quest lines cancel that out. It's no longer a myth. The night elves from Wota already know they were trolls. There is no more myth to it.

I think you're referring to the info on quest lines Jade forest through Kasrang Wilds and Kun Lai summit. It doesn't say how long the Night elves existed at that point when the Pandaren rebellion happened and there is a lot of speculation in the post on the information, especially because it is second-hand info. The Night elves may still think they were created under Elune. Trolls did not do a ban on arcane either, I think you're mixing that up with the Mogu ban on weapons.

Unless you're referring to some quest chain I haven't heard of in which case tell where you heard it :o? As far as I know the info came from Curll on SoL who let Omacron on the beans.

It says specifically 16k years ago. That I know.

A great read! Can certainly tell this took a lot of work. Thank you for doing this Melyria, I'm sure it will come in handy to a lot of those who are new or veterans to night elf rp.

04/03/2012 06:10 PMPosted by Roanmara

It says specifically 16k years ago. That I know.

16k years prior the Trolls fought the Aqir.

12k years ago was the Mogu/Pandaren war, with the Zandalari and Night Elves helping their respective allies.

After the Mogu/Zandalari were defeated, the Night Elves pushed the advantage and shattered the empire and instated their own. The Pandaren, uneasy with the Night Elves and their arcane use, faded into their own lands and left well enough alone.

I do apologize for indulging this particular topic after it seemed to have been forgotten, but, as I read through the mini-debate concerning the portals in Darnassus, a thought suddenly occurred to me: What says that this portal must be fueled or created by Arcane magics? Other classes are capable of teleportation, and two (Warlocks and Death Knights) can even create stable portals from place to place, though, of course, these portals aren't quite the same.

I decided to do a little digging around in order to find a somewhat more solid basis for the theory that those portals could perhaps be sustained with Druidic magics, as opposed to Arcane magics. About five minutes later, I found this:

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:The_Boon_of_Remulos

Within this particular portion of this questline, Remulos opens a portal to Icecrown (An actual, physical portal, as opposed to a teleportation spell). One could argue that Remulos isn't the best example to cite, being one which wields great power, but between that, and the various other examples of classes utilizing teleportation/portals of various types, it certainly wouldn't be impossible for sufficiently skilled Druids to be able to create and sustain such a portal. Heck, the Aspects could have even set it up when they finally agreed to bless the tree (Could be wrong there on my lore; apologies if so), as Alexstraza, if memory serves, also summons a portal of a similar nature to Remulos' aforementioned portal in that very same questline.
Indeed, if memory serves, I believe A'dal does much the same, once again in that very same questline. Yes, they are all immensely powerful beings, but it does not seem terrifically far-fetched to assume that a collective of Druids or Priestesses of Elune came together to create the portal (perhaps even in tandem with such heavyweights as Malfurion and Tyrande).

I'll shut up about that now; I can and do ramble oftentimes. This is an exceedingly impressive guide, and it's quite clear that there was a significant amount of work involved in gathering and citing all of this. So, congratulations. I salute your dedication and the quality of your work.

As a final thought: I had seen several queries brought up regarding certain aspects of this guide; these queries had piqued my interest, and it is disappoints me somewhat to see that they have been left unanswered, especially considering the fact that they have been quoted several times throughout the thread. Clarification on those points would be marvelous, and my apologies if they were already clarified.

Ill add my thoughts on the rest later, but as is night elves are fairly heavy for their size. Jarod mentioned in wolfheart that a worgen a foot taller than him maybe weighed a few pounds more.

Feralas / Dire Maul: Feralas was not discovered until approximately 10 years ago.[131]

The quote in question refers to a quest that says "discovery of lands we thought lost to us like Feralas... "

so it's not saying we discovered it 10 years ago but is saying that we discovered it's still healthy. Perhaps night elves thought it was the same as desolace and didn't know they had kin to the south still.

I couldn't remember exactly who is standing by the portals in the Temple, but it is indeed a portal trainer, a human mage. I don't think, then, that the portals are intended to be non-arcane. Unless the shaman or paladin trainers did it. Maybe when their powers combine...

Another misconception is that men were/are looked down upon in Night Elf society. This was and is not the case.

This is not true, or at least what you're trying to say is not true. Any time you have to say:

Because the gender roles have been lifted, males can become Sentinels and priests,

it implies that men were "looked down upon". They were not "allowed" to participate in the activities the cool chicks were doing, thus they were, by very definition, second class citizens.

I don't have a clear understanding of why the gender restrictions existed. Is there an explanation for them, or is the lore behind it "that's just how it was"? In the absence of that explanation, I'm not sure I can agree with certainty that it is proof either gender was technically discounted by the others in this regard.

If they just believed, say, that Elune only obliges women with her blessings, or that only men can commune with nature for druidism, that's not necessarily seeing either gender as social lessers. That is, in the same way someone might rattle off, "only women can get pregnant," if the belief is that it's just not possible, it's not strictly a gender bias. If they believed something more along the lines of "men don't have the discipline for the priesthood", that is a more obvious bias.

Anyway, I think the original remark was about the idea that Night Elves are under a fully male-oppressive matriarchy, rather than that they are and have been completely free from gender biases as a society. We, ah, do have some dudes who hang around Darnassus looking to be dominated.

04/03/2012 06:56 PMPosted by Bradell

I think it's pretty disappointing that a handful of posts that poke rather significant holes in this guide are going totally ignored.

Height/weight ratios were corrected.

Gender roles is them being nitpicky, males and females can be equal without having every role open to them. For all men couldn't be sentinels, women couldn't be druids either, it evens out.

When the head of the military and the head of the religion are the same person, who was appointed, not elected, theocratic dictatorship sounds just fine.

As to the arcane, "Hey! If you're gonna do that take it outside!"

Demon hunters are outlaws and generally dangerous dudes. Kill on sight? Maybe not. But not someone you invite to the family picnic.

"Large scale technology like cannons and gnomish weapons of war" A mechanical thingie hurler is ok, a steam powered battle robot with turret mounted flamethrowers and a self cooling cupholder, noooo.

That better? Or were there other significant holes?

04/03/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Cerdwyn

When the head of the military and the head of the religion are the same person, who was appointed, not elected, theocratic dictatorship sounds just fine.

Source? Again? Or are you just brushing over that, too?

Warcraft 3, where Tyrande is referred to as High Priestess and also fulfills a leadership role over the Sentinels, including Shandris.

04/03/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Cerdwyn

"Large scale technology like cannons and gnomish weapons of war" A mechanical thingie hurler is ok, a steam powered battle robot with turret mounted flamethrowers and a self cooling cupholder, noooo.That better? Or were there other significant holes?

You're not saying anything about warglaives being large machines.

I think the point is there's a difference between Voltron, Defender of the Universe and a glorified ballistae.

There was a bit of talk the other day about glaive thrower models in-game. There are some that are self-propelled and look quite mechanical up close. But are there any Night Elf equivalents to siege engines, shredders, tanks... that sort of thing? (or are there any clearly existing as Night Elf materiel?)

04/03/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Seija

Not to an overly critical malcontent who just wants to fuss.

This isn't really constructive either, though. Perhaps it's best to withhold comments like this.

Holy crap Melyria is still posting