World of Warcraft®

Look, alot of the people who might come upon this first probably won't be inclined to agree with what i have to say here, i'd like to stress that it's my opinion, and it's not one that's often SHARED. If you don't want to read what i'm going to put down in it's entirety then call it for flame and keep on your important browsing justice, but for those of you looking for a place among the Ally side roleplayers on Cenarion Circle i have this personal opinion. OPINION to offer.

Go somewhere else, chances are you're looking because someone told you there was alot of it here, or because the grass is always greener, etc, and at first you'll see that it works out well. Some people on CC are actually quite nice, and for a while creative premises abound- but then you stick around for a while and realize that it dwindles down in the light of the really very tiny community that does anything. In four months on cenarion circle and an experience over eight years, i can tell you that it's not the groundbreaking roleplay experience you're looking for as the rule over the exception.

Sure there's gems, and redeeming qualities, but there's gems elsewhere too, and it's a shame that there are legitimately good roleplayers that don't catch the attention because they aren't as well sold- the events boil down to weekly stops that feel very aptly described as "RP dailies" and then there's the wonderful little club of characters that everyone knows and you'll have to suffer if you don't fancy them yourself. Look folks, i'm wonderfully aware of the fact that playing a MMORPG is half about social interaction, but it shouldn't feel like social interaction in primary school- and that's right down at the route of it, this complaint and the fromation of this thread to warn, perhaps, a likeminded individual if there is a handful- CC is not the kind of place you might enjoy more than wherever you were.

So far as guilds you've got a great selection, but you aren't going for a young roleplaying guild with a good premise, you're looking for a leveling guild to shorten the time between here and rep gains, and again, if you ARE then you are the exception and not the rule. Everything on CC is very thin and generic, and if you're just starting out you can be kind of happy with that, but if you came out of Tera or anything else that's broken the mold roleplay wise in the last eight years you might have noticed that things are kind of stagnant- and if you haven't, you will- then you get to noticing that it comes down to the white knight guild and the ha ha crime family guild, if you look under the rocks you might catch the occasional explorer guild, but good luck. Really in my opinion you'd be better off putting the time in to "be the change" or perhaps finding another medium with which to express your creativity in a fantasy setting. Like warcraft fanfiction.

On the subject of warcraft fanfiction, if you're the kind of person that wants there to be a little wiggle room so far as story goes, then be ye careful where thou tread on CC, story arguments rage unabated for hours and dance between creepily passionate and heavyhandedly alliance and outright hands-jammed-in-ears-la-la-la stupid, and on the subject of stupid- people who think like i do probably can't summon the respect CC seems to demand for ye old horde is bad lorecraft. There seems to be an almost totalitarian demand to adhere to warcraft's often silly lore as the rule on CC, and it's hard to stomach, frankly. (ONCE AGAIN, OPINION.)

So look, if you're looking for a new server and you're looking to roleplay, as a person who's been on CC the length i have, i can tell you there's greener pastures elsewhere, at least if the stuff i've exaggerated about so far doesn't tickle your fancy. If it does, you have cookie-cut premises, a boatload of quirky characters you couldn't utter the word "substance" to with a straight face, and occasionally two week waiting periods to join respectable roleplay guilds, followed by a probationary period, followed by a few more convoluted and only vaguely necessary steps. You may have found guilds more elite than that sounds so far as RP, but it seems like a trend here. So to conclude- if you ARE looking for the fields of elysium, you WILL find them. In a different game, see, CC's not the worst, but that's because the bar is so low it didn't have to try very hard to have any kind of title above "worst", and if you're happy enough with that, enjoy it.

(THIS IS CLEARLY AN OPINIONATED REVIEW OF THE SERVER, IT DOES NOT REFLECT ANY VIEW OTHER THAN THE ORIGINAL POSTER'S. IF IT DID, PEOPLE MIGHT NOT WRITE THINGS LIKE THIS.) Now commence turning your noses up, i hope someone caught this and decided not to move their unsurely good thing over to the place it'd go to die.

Also in regards to the title, i can only speak for Alliance side, as that is the only faction i've played a toon past infancy and have the most experience with.

It does sound like a less event-oriented server might do you well.

As for Alliance, well. I can't say I can speak. Never played on that side of the fence often. I can't say anything that would, or should, sell you on Horde side, because frankly I just hope whereever you land you enjoy yourself, as it is a game, ultimately, for enjoyment.

We are a small server, but I can speak for Horde side when I say we do make strives to be inclusive and mix things up as we can.

I have toons on other RP servers which I seldom visit now, this has not been my experience here I have found the community here very warm and inclusive. I'm sorry you feel this way Will.

I'll respond to a few things here....

Lore Arguments:
I could not disagree with you more here. The lore set down defines a common sandbox, and to those who change it: you are forcing other people to adopt your new version of reality. Being the half-demon brother of Arthas is not only annoying, it requires that I change certain facts within the story, characters, and everything. In order for someone to RP with me, they must accept them too. A common sandbox prevents us from having to memorize endless sets of worlds, and thereby promotes inclusive RP.

Weekly RP Events/Primary School RP:
I agree that this is a defining part of our server, but I don't agree that it's necessarily a bad thing. Knowing that you've got some events to go to every week is a good way to keep things regular, though I do think that mixing it up will help.

Right now, I'm waiting for the lunar festival, myself.

As for the Primary School problem. I'm not quite sure what aspect you're referring to. If you're saying that nothing ever happens, the best way to make something happen is to get something started, and for the other side to work with the initiating party to run it through. I wasn't always happy with the results, but I did have a few lines that largely sprung from "primary school RP", which in some areas are still going (can't tell you more about some of my current ones, not yet).

Guilds:
Over the past few years, I've been on Ravenholdt, Twisting Nether, Moon Guard, and here, largely following guilds as they've transferred. I've learned since that most communities are essentially the same, and that small guilds tend to have a rough time expanding, especially if they follow a specific concept. This is not unique to CC.

Recommendations
None of this is to say, though, that CC is perfect. No server is. Willander does have a few points, but I think that saying that we should give up is a poor way to go about it. None of this requires fundamental overhaul, but I think that a few minor changes would be helpful.

1. Use CRZ to your advantage, because random RP is out there.
As many of you know, I RP almost exclusively in Darnassus, which was empty before CRZ became normalized. Now, CC regularly phases with MG and WRA, giving me access to RP with the traditionalist Night Elf community there (sans the occasional bouts with the liberals, but even they are closer to the original concept than most Night Elves). Yes, having more people as a general rule leads to a greater number of worts. It's a proportionality thing, but we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Instead of looking down on other servers, go out and RP with them (some discretion required obviously, I am by no means saying that you should go near Goldshire). Most importantly, do this with the understanding that you are representing CC to people who may not be happy with their server.

IF and Darn, again, are great places to do this. The Exodar is even a possibility. If you enjoy RP with someone, exchange battletags so that you can coordinate events and storylines. There are endless possibilities with new RPers, and if you represent CC well, some of those people may start alts or transfer here.

RP-PVP
I've been beating the drum about this for some time, but this is an expansion that is focused heavily on the interfaction war. We are leaving a lot of cross-faction interactions out of the equation by not developing PVP on the Alliance side, to say nothing of the embarrassment of say, having to declare Serpent's Spine (yes, our PVP vendors...) Horde territory until four Tauren decide that they're ready to leave. I understand that this requires work, I went through it myself, but there are those of us, myself included, who have offered a helping hand and largely not seen it taken. Once we get RP-PVP rolling though, a whole battery of RP events and storylines that were previously closed off become open to us... and this might be personal opinion speaking, but a challenge that doesn't involve emotes is fun, even if you represent an underpowered class like mine.

... and even if you don't PVP, and I understand that there will be people who don't, please don't shoot us down when we're trying to promote it. Some people are interested, but are daunted by the grind. That's understandable, but again, there are people here to help with that, and able to give tips to make it more tolerable. To give one example: I'm still amazed that some people click their abilities in PVP, but they do. I helped a guild member transition to keybinds just yesterday, which should make PVP a lot more fun for them.


To close. I am a transfer to CC. I've seen other servers, and I have not once regretted being here. Even with my usual hardline stance against value-added services, I regard the transfer fee as a bargain considering what I got for it. Some things could change, but on the whole this is a good server.

If I may put in my two cents, I've played both horde and alliance on CC and, in my opinion, alliance players are fanatical lore freaks, they get into it hard when someone says something that isn't to THEIR specification of the lore, for example, I had asked in aooc about having a human who was raised by this character here, almost everyone in aooc immediately went on a rampage about how that would never happen a blood elf would just as soon kill a human as look at her. so it seems they either don't know their lore or weren't paying attention. Blood elves were once High Elves and were technically part of the alliance. it was only within the past 10 to 20 years that they became blood elves. and my human character is most certainly not 10 years old.

On Horde side, they were very supportive of my ideas, even helping me figure out details for my story. Alliance side just pushed me down in the mud and laughed at my ideas.

On Horde side, they were very supportive of my ideas, even helping me figure out details for my story. Alliance side just pushed me down in the mud and laughed at my ideas.

I listened to this discussion and I think the biggest conversation was about the age differences in the races and the problems that entails. As I said last night, no one was putting you down. They were pointing out issues and angles you might have to think about.

I actually don't see the problem with a human being raised by a belf. At all. it's not against lore, as far as I know. (even if it was, I'm a teensy bit of a lore-breaker on occasion and really don't care.) People react differently to other races based on the character. If you ask me, you shouldn't have mentioned it, just gone with it.

See, this is why I just don't use AOOC anymore. There was a long lost time when it was helpful. Now? Not so much. :/

I actually don't see the problem with a human being raised by a belf. At all. it's not against lore, as far as I know. (even if it was, I'm a teensy bit of a lore-breaker on occasion and really don't care.) People react differently to other races based on the character. If you ask me, you shouldn't have mentioned it, just gone with it.

See, this is why I just don't use AOOC anymore. There was a long lost time when it was helpful. Now? Not so much. :/

Different character reactions aren't really within that. You can have someone outside of three standard deviations of the mean, you just have to not change material facts, and have to understand that the world around our characters is what it is.

That doesn't really fall within the realm of lore breaking. Lore breaking on the other hand, is the creation of material facts. Things like "Arthas had a brother that they just never brought up", "the citizens of Darkshore elected me Mayor", or "I just blew up the Auction house in Ironforge". The linking theme is not always that these examples are extreme or ridiculous, but that the player reached into the overall environment and backstory, and changed it to suit their interests. If the metaphor is that we are playing in a sandbox, then this is the act of pouring concrete into it.

Again, it forces anyone who agrees to RP with you to accept facts about the world around them that they shouldn't. If I want to RP with you, I shouldn't have to learn how your guild is actually an intergalactic governing body that assassinated the entirety of the House of Nobles (yes, I had run into people on another server who RPed this!). I shouldn't have to make notes as to what buildings you claim to have destroyed so I know not to act as though the NPCs there are selling me drinks, and I shouldn't have to work out your altered history where Night Elves had a colony in the Eastern Kingdoms for five-thousand years, and how that further changes the environment. We both should instead take the common environment and history that Blizzard has laid out, and go from there.

If you can't, then I can't RP with you. You are playing in an entirely different world.

Now commence turning your noses up, i hope someone caught this and decided not to move their unsurely good thing over to the place it'd go to die.

i actually deleted my opinion.
Let me ask you this: This post, is it a declaration of an opinion or an actual discussion?
For if it's a discussion there is something to be gained in discussion the current rp state of the server.
If it's just you claiming the things you just did and anyone who comes along and makes a counter point is "turning his nose up", then there isn't much anyone can add to this thread.

As we can clearly see from this thread, not everbody agree with the things you just said. But the point is: Will it be a discussion or we will just sit and stare at each other?

None of these complaints are exclusive to our server, nor to either faction. There are foolish, arrogant, unfriendly, ego-ridden vultures everywhere. Discern what they are, and limit your interactions with them. Just like in the real world. You're not going to roll up on Starbucks and be insta-buds with every mouth-breather with a laptop.

You have people that can understand the concept of a sandbox and the openness it truly provides, and then you have people that would argue IN CHARACTER over the most minute, unoffensive details.

You have people that enjoy getting together every week to sit and wait patiently for the event to be over, and you have people that rally up nine other souls to do full IC raids.

You have people that are here to have an -enjoyable- experience, and you have people who clearly just want to be -miserable-.

Know the difference, adjust your flight path accordingly.

Without getting (trying to get) preachy, as this thread seems to be taking a dangerous turn towards, I'll just say this.

Both Kyalin and the OP, and the supporters of either opinions, have points. Yes, there is credit to sticking to lore. As Kyalin pointed out, if you are RPing something that is impossible within the lore Blizzard sets, which most people RP within, it becomes incredibly difficult to interact with you and it creates distance within the community.

That said, there are many gray areas. Just a quick example, the differences in the schools of magic. Blizzard doesn't explicitly state what they are, where each school is from, or much specifics in regards to anything in depth about them. There are tons of grey areas with which someone could take creative liberties with.

That said, if someone's going around shouting that water, is, infact, not wet, someone is bound to remark that it is. Such a thing would happen in RP, such a thing would happen in real life.

12/29/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Arothand

That said, if someone's going around shouting that water, is, infact, not wet, someone is bound to remark that it is. Such a thing would happen in RP, such a thing would happen in real life.

This isn't as extreme, people here are just happy with that, evidenced in Kyalin defending the event centric roleplay here as not being so bad- the point i made had it's own merits, and as far as the conversation taking a bad turn it wasn't meant to be a discussion, it wasn't meant for any of you at all. Clearly CC hasn't come to a point where it isn't your thing- this was for someone who might have been looking out for this kind of review.

And as far as that goes, water isn't wet- see,

"Water isn't wet. Wetness is a description of our experience of water; what happens to us when we come into contact with water in such a way that it impinges on our state of being. We, or our possessions, 'get wet'. A less impinging sense experience of water is that it is cold or warm, while visual experience tells us that it is green or blue or muddy or fast-flowing. We learn by experience that a sensation of wetness is associated with water: 'there must be a leak/I must have sat in something.'"
Jacqueline Castles, London W2

Right, and I can appreciate a review, certainly, but there's a difference between a review and an 'I'M QUITTING YOU GUYS ARE JERKS' post.

The point about CC being event-centric? Solid point. And we should advertise this, even, because CC is not for some people. You also make a good point that we should strive to keep events from stagnating and becoming dull, and to mix it up, and remain as inclusive as possible.

But then you get into the insult slinging, which loses you credibility. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, the insults and attacks don't do your review any credit or service.

And technically, you may be right about water! That wasn't really the point, however.

Edit: I should say, again, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of the points you made. I'm just saying this comes off as less of a review and more of an angry rant, and as such seems more bitter and less helpful. The insults, particularly to people OOCly, are why people are bothering to reply at all - and I'm speaking as a guy who doesn't play A-side at all, and so it doesn't really directly effect me.

12/29/2012 03:16 PMPosted by Arothand

Edit: I should say, again, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of the points you made. I'm just saying this comes off as less of a review and more of an angry rant, and as such seems more bitter and less helpful. The insults, particularly to people OOCly, are why people are bothering to reply at all - and I'm speaking as a guy who doesn't play A-side at all, and so it doesn't really directly effect me.

Right, and it will come off as an angry rant to the people who are into what goes on on CC, that's all good, and there weren't any insults made against anyone directly.

The different servers each have a slightly different flavor. The more population that rps the more opinions you are going to run into. Some of these clash...especially when you start rping with creative people who want their own vision of Azeroth to be what they are playing.

Sometimes when you get an idea to play out you get resistance, a critic who squashes your every idea is no fun at all. However, you do have to develop a tougher skin if you want to rp anywhere. On all servers you will find this to be true.

No one likes it when their ideas are laughed at or ignored. But in order to rp you have to have someone who goes along with your idea and embraces it as fun. Obviously some people are going to be rather adamant that you stick to the lore and never deviate. The problem with that is even Blizzard does not give us enough details on some of the lore, and even going so far as to retcon stuff.

But really, it is not going to change if you rant about it, neither is it going to imrove the server or the experience for anyone. I recommend this server to people because it is less likely to be volatile as some other rp servers.

The trick is to find those gems and stick to them. Find new rpers and teach them that all rp is not the same. The experience I have had is this is one of the best. Not perfect by any means, but that is because there is no perfect server.

Couple quick points, no intent to be obnoxious:

12/30/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Sylviagray

Sometimes when you get an idea to play out you get resistance, a critic who squashes your every idea is no fun at all. However, you do have to develop a tougher skin if you want to rp anywhere

And sometimes, the person you think is being a "critic" is actually trying to help you. If I, for instance, hear out your idea and start picking it apart, I can guarantee you it's not because I'm an authoritarian cruelty-artist who enjoys watching you doubt whether you deserve the oxygen you just breathed in. Sometimes you're just wrong about certain points of lore. Sometimes, like Kyalin points out above, you're writing yourself into a corner where people can't RP with you.

Carebears like me? We try to keep folks from making hideous mistakes that result in an unplayable character. No, you can't play a half-angel who inherited one white wing and a completely effortless tap into the Holy Light while still being a mage and is also a Time Lord and a black dragon rawwwwwr--but we lore-fascist nutjobs can help you find ways to play with the concepts and work inside the lore to make your character workable and make you look like a genius.

12/30/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Sylviagray

Some of these clash...especially when you start rping with creative people who want their own vision of Azeroth to be what they are playing.

Creativity isn't the biggest, flashiest idea you can come up with; creativity is making it work in the system you're putting it in. It may seem pretty original to have an arcane-fueled accident that results in two characters' minds being inextricably welded together with a permanent unbreakable psychic link--but after the fifth or sixth time you encounter this being done with all benefits and no detriments, it just makes you leery of the next one. And they so seldom fail to disappoint! In short, it's the execution, not the idea itself (although some ideas are just BAD).

But that's this grouchy old lit major's personal opinion.

The real world sets the rules that we live our lives by it's story is the one we all weave our own against. Azeroth is the same in that it sets the rules and the weft upon which we weave our tapestry. The best and strongest stories are the ones that weave and tie into as many other threads as is possible. A story that is limited by it's isolation from these other threads is often too weak to hold up on it's own. The best stories usually start out small, the greatest hero's often as not come from common stock and grow into their role. Personally I prefer stories where we learn to cope with our world and despite the blows it deals us in our lives we grow from our mistakes. Stories where we triumph over hardships using our skills, knowledge and the codes we live our lives by. Though as I said that's just me.

I've been involved in RP for almost 40 years going well back into the era of paper and dice, successfully ran an RP heavy fantasy campaign for 15 years of it with over sixty players and 200 characters (lol only a small guild by today's standards). Still because of this experience I feel I'm a pretty good judge of what works and what does not in regards to character development and story line creation and while bending the rules can work breaking them does not. Experience shows that it just creates bitterness and resentment in those around you and a reluctance to join in your story. For a successful story line others need to be able to connect to your character and they have to be attracted to your story not forced into it and foremost they need to feel they are part of it.

Likely this is more than you want to hear and I do tend to ramble, hence I don't comment often. I'd like to echo others on this thread, while the CC isn't perfect of the RP servers I've tasted it has been the most welcoming and inclusive.