ICA=ICC, Consent. Etc.

(Locked)

100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
This is some stuff I wrote about RP, particularly concepts of fair play, a while ago. I'm reposting them here.

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In Character Actions yield In Character Consequences
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I ran into a couple of RPers the other day who were behaving badly. One did something that was pretty inappropriate so my character tried to knock him over for it. It wasn't a dangerous, killing attack or anything. It was literally a shove. He went Neo and dodged it. His reason? He didn't feel like RP fighting at the moment. /rolleyes.

He was unprepared to take the fair IC consequences for his IC actions.

He exposed himself to someone when that someone's significant other was pretty much right next to him. What do you think is going to happen? I mean come on.

Meanwhile, someone else sitting nearby who wanted to be a tough guy chimed in. So my character came and got in his personal space. He tried to attack me and so I emoted I was pulling a (what the other guy's name was) pulled and dodged the attack. Then I appended and said the attack glanced and the guy ran off before my character could retaliate... because he didn't want to fight.

So I make a remark about ICA=ICC, and that if inappropriate guy didn't want to face consequences for his IC actions he shouldn't have whipped his junk out. Dick guy says he doesn't know what that means but that I'm a snob and heads off and one of my friends asks "What's ICA=ICC?" I explain what the acronym is and the friend pretty much inferred the rest.

So here I am writing a blurb on it because it's on my mind.

ICA=ICC means: In Character Actions yield In Character Consequences.

It is pretty much a pillar of coherent, good roleplay. It separates the people who just want to play pretend from people who want to roleplay with realistic consequences.

ICA=ICC applies in several ways, both with direct character actions against other players, and character actions and concepts within the world its self.

ICA=ICC with other players: If your character does something that would upset, anger, etc another character, you should expect that character to react appropriately. If you're being a tough guy and a hardass, you best be ready to have someone else in your space wanting to act on your fightin' words.

If you do something that warrants having the crap slapped out of you, expect it. To the extreme, if you do something that warrants character death, you should be willing to accept character death as a consequence. (However, a good RPer will almost always let another character escape alive, as killing a character ends a story.)

If you are unwilling to consent to IC Consequences for your characters' IC actions, then don't do them. If you don't want to RP fight right now, then don't do something that would invite a pummeling. When you don't opt in to consequences for your actions, you are creating a disconnect in realism and suspension of disbelief. No one likes that, and it makes you a bad RPer.

ICA=ICC in the world: Like in real life, societies in game have certain social values. While these are not always written out, such as canon, one can usually infer basic decency by observing the cultures around you.

In RP you get these hardass mass murderer types, criminals, psycho killers, etc. You get things like Mr. Inappropriate and Mr. Tough Guy.

What these people don't consider is that the lawful society in various IC locations might not be so tolerant of such things. They don't consider that what they're doing is breaking suspension of disbelief because it would not logically, legally be allowed, and logically the NPC guards or npc locals would react in a negative way.

If you murder someone IRL, stab them to death in, say, a mall. Do you just walk away and get away with it? Hell no. There will be police and security on you. You'll be dragged away in chains and probably wind up buttraped by a large inmate.

If you were to stab someone in game, in public, what reason would there be for NPC guards to not be on your character dragging you away in shackles? There is none. As such. You should not do this sort of thing in public, because the consequences would remove your character from play.
Edited by Zandrae on 1/15/2014 1:58 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
Likewise. If you went into a McDonalds, and you're enjoying your McWhatever, and you suddenly need to pee and decide you're going to go out and piss on the kiddy playground instead of using the bathroom, you're going to get arrested for indecent exposure. Likely to a minor. And you're going to get thrown in jail and shanked for being a pedo.

If you walk up to people in game, drop trow, and take a piss right in front of them, what reason is there that the guards would allow that? Especially in some place like Silvermoon? They wouldn't. So don't do it, because your character -should- be dragged off in shackles or at least thrown from town.

Its like taking a non-service dog into a place that has a no dogs allowed sign posted. What do you think is going to happen? Don't do that.

If you are RPing in game as a High Elf who is not a prisoner of war, and it is obvious, and you go strolling into a Horde city, what do you think should happen? Your character is going to be beaten within an inch of its life and then imprisoned or killed.

But, my character is not facing consequences because *uniquespecialsnowflakereason*.

Get out.

Why people in Silvermoon are doing it wrong.

Most people don't really pay that much attention to the place they're playing in. They may not realize why someplace like Silvermoon is definitely not a place to do overtly unlawful things.

I agree that Silvermoon is a pristine city with an underbelly of filth, however, it’s best if the underbelly tries to keep a low key, lest it get swept out.

Silvermoon is arguably under martial law. There are guards there and mechanical magic constructs demanding people behave themselves or else.

Dissenters are Mind Controlled. Don’t believe me? Go watch the skit in The Bazaar. It’s the thought police!

Silvermoon is 1984 with magic and pointy ears. It might not be as rigid as the time bubble shows, but still.

Some of the things people try to get away with in Silvermoon just wouldn't fly, including pissing in public or walking around yelling about selling drugs.

TL;DR: Don't do stupid things unless you are willing to face the consequences.
Edited by Zandrae on 1/15/2014 2:00 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
========================
Consent: Opting In
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Timmy and Bobby are playing cops and robbers!

Little Billy shows up with his new lightsaber toy and says "I kill you with my lightsaber, I'm a Jedi!"

Timmy and Bobby say, "No. You can't do that. It's against the rules!"

Billy says, "Nuh uh. You can't prove it!"

Timmy and Bobby either argue with Billy, ignore Billy, or go play somewhere else.


Recently, someone on the Worlds End Tavern forum wrote an epic QQ about how some guild RUINED RP on Wyrmrest Accord.

I think it's a hefty accusation, and while I hate to blame the victim, I think it's not just some guild to blame, but all the RPers involved as well.

Back to our story for a second: Timmy and Bobby knew that what Billy was trying to do was wrong. They didn't know how to express, "That doesn't fit into the setting of American Historical Fantasy."... Unless they were private school attending overachievers. >.>

Back to wow stuff:

How does a RP guild "control" a server?

A guild has members that opt into the guild plotlines and the authority the guild has over them and engage others not in guild. They might use peer pressure and bully tactics, they might just convince others to opt into their plots and authority.

People opting in is what empowers guilds. A guild without people is NOTHING but storage space.

A jerk playing something that doesn't fit is only a "legitimate" RPer when people actually RP with that person.

Maybe those who became recruited and opted in knew that something wasn't right, but didn't want to be viewed as a bad RPer or chastised by a group of people for not playing along. Maybe, just maybe, the people who opted in didn't know that they are not obligated to do so.

It's possible. Some people didn't know what ICA=ICC is.

So I'm going to textually scream it: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO OPT IN!

If a guild claims to have certain power and authority and demands everyone follow their rules? And you don't like their rules? You are not obligated to play along with their demands. You have the right to not opt into RPing with them. You have the right to say nope.

If someone is RPing something that violates canon or common sense, you are not obligated to play with them.

If you don't want to play a WOW-ized version of Game of Thrones, you can say no. (This is not World of A Song of Ice and Firecraft, this is Warcraft! /pitkick)

If you don't want to RP with someone because they are being an attention ...hog, or not running a rp addon, or haven't opted into a guild yet (though honestly I'd suggest against this one as good guilds are hard to find, I'll cover this more later) you don't have to.

Maybe someone's prose is so purple Barney's agents called and had to ask for his color back? I got nothin'. Perhaps someone is RPing something you don't want to rp with like a demon/dragon/vampire/noble?

You have the right to choose to not RP with anyone or any guild for any reason. No justification required.

However, I would advise only opting out for solid reasons not on whims, as whims could earn you a negative reputation. There may be OOC repercussions to opting out. I'd suggest having a reason on hand in case the person or guild you are not engaging asks.

If someone, or worse, some guild, tries to defame, harass, and bully you over your choice to have standards, you have the right to put them on ignore.

Even if the bullying is because your reasoning is petty, you still shouldn't be bullied over it.

I'd suggest real in game ignore not using an extended ignore addon, as Blizz might be able to see the server side ignore. Try not to say anything that can get you in trouble, simply say to leave you alone and /ignore.

Also open a GM ticket saying you are being harassed, that you have ignored the problem and want to report it for the sake of records.
Edited by Zandrae on 1/15/2014 2:04 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
But what if they scare other people off from playing with you because of rumors?

Do you really want to RP with someone who judges you based on rumors instead of RPing with you directly? Can i get a resounding "Hell no!"

If the person, or group of harassing persons you have on ignore have contacted you via alts, then say nothing. You have the right, and even the responsibility, to ignore their new alts and open another ticket, reporting it.

Stand your ground. Do not back down (like in that song) and cave into bullies. You are 100% in the right.

Blizzard can and does hand out 72+ bans for people who repeatedly dodge ignore for the sake of harassment. Blizzard can't tell you what their punishment is, but you might hear it through the grapevine.

TL;DR: It's only by the consent of the governed that guilds have any social "power". You are not obligated to opt in and empower them. You have the right to say no.

You are not obligated to RP with someone just because they are there. You can say no, you have the right to say no.

You have the right to the quality RP that you enjoy, and you don't need to settle for less.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
========================
Consent II: Character to Character
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Thou shalt not control another person's character.

It's a somewhat unspoken courtesy across all freeform RPing communities on the internet that one should pose actions involving another character as an attempt, leaving the outcome up to the player the action is being performed on.

When someone poses in a way that controls the outcome of an action on another character, or controls that character outright, we get upset. We call this breach in our social contract a plethora of things: God Moding, Power Gaming, Twinking, Auto-hitting.

What some players fail to realize is that it is possible to impose control another person's character without their consent outside of combat.

In the first chapter of Consent I covered the world, guilds, players, and opting into playing them. In this article I will cover opting out of things people pose.

A history lesson about Consent:

In 1998, when I moved away from RPing on IRC and onto an over-glorified graphical chat, I was exposed to a policy about consent.

The policy said that if someone poses that they do something to your character that you do not agree with / that makes you feel uncomfortable, you can ignore it and carry on, pretending it never happened.

I believe, for a time, this type of stance stemmed from what happened on LambdaMOO way back in the early 90s. The ethic is somewhat integrated into WOW RP's unspoken rules of RP engagement. But this, the history and reason for it, is something that younger users may not be aware of.

At the time, I do not think the players involved had quite the separation of character as modern RPers have, so we have additional place guards to protect against these fiascoes. These people were playing themselves as a ____ in a virtual community.

What we would today call a troll, running a script, on this particular user scriptable text based client/server that allowed him to control other users' characters, used the script to sexually harass and embarrass members of the community.

These victims felt real life duress (remember how I said ic/ooc separation was probably not that strong) from the activity and in the wake of the event the community developed conduct standards and tools to enforce their standards to prevent repeat episodes. You can a summary here. ( http://bit.ly/D6nAH )

Feelings and Science

What people may not realize is while many of us have a strong separation between IC and OOC, our bodies still chemically and emotionally react to RP situations. It is possible to feel happy, or sad, or excited, or embarrassed entirely from online RP, and these emotions are real.

And believe it or not, this is normal. Testosterone has been known to surge in fans of winning super bowl teams, while estrogen surges in the losers. The same thing happens in RP.

Gaming societies and many games now grant control of avatars almost exclusively to the player of those avatars. In situations where that control is stripped (lifegrip, deathgrip, crowd control) people may find themselves feeling a bit annoyed subtle feeling of being violated because they aren't in control. Hence the sea of QQ about lifegrip.

I know I personally hate items that force your avatar to dance and all those seasonal items that let people transform others' avatars.

No, not the feelings!

One of the most common and most overlooked forms of god moding someone else's character doesn't happen in poses/emotes at all. It happens in someone's roleplay description. In WOW, that would be someone's MRP/RSP/TRP.

When I read a MRP, I am reading what my character sees. When an MRP tells me how beautiful and irresistible a character is, and how people find them attractive, my character is being godmoded.

What my character thinks is beautiful may be different than what the other person's player does. Needless to say I quietly think, "I do not consent" and disregard the whole beauty thing for being the trash that it is.

I had someone try that in game with my Warlock, with emotes and stuff like that, which I found hilarious. It did not end well, and an insecure Blood Elf woman was left brushed off as not attractive because my Warlock is a chubby chaser. He thinks all those waif-like female blood elf beauty queens are bony-faced hags with bodies of teenage boys. My Warlock we would rather have a female orc or a female tauren. Huehuehue.
Edited by Zandrae on 1/15/2014 2:06 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
Consenting to things players do:

In RP, you do not have to consent to or play along with:

People emoting that they do something to your character without your consent. (/me punches you. instead of /me attempts to punch you.) This type of playstyle doesn't allow your character fair representation of their abilities. (You don't have to consent to dice use, either, as unweighted dice are simply RNG and do not give a character its due, I'll cover this later.)

People imposing authority over you for which you have not opted into. ("I'm a noble, bow to me." or "My guild controls Stormwind, you can only do things we approve of." or "My character has godly powers, obey me or die." These people only have power if you give it to them.) You do not have to OOCly serve another player because you are RPing their minion.

People telling you directly or indirectly what your character thinks or feels. ("You see her and are instantly attracted to her." No, just no.)

Sex on screen. If you do not want to RP out a sex screen you are not obligated to.

You don't have to consent to death.

Anything you feel violates IC=/=OOC, what you have accepted as canon, or anything that violates your suspension of disbelief.

And per my previous article: You have the right to not consent to RPing with a person at all. For any reason.

In my last article, I covered that if you use consent to opt out of things too liberally people may get angry.

Consent is essentially a checks and balances system to protect you from bad RP. It shouldn't be used to win conflicts.

Using consent in combat to be a Neo and dodge everything in a conflict (breaking ICA=ICC) is a surefire way to get you shat upon.

TL;DR: It's not ok for others to control your character, nor is it ok to tell you what your character thinks or feels.

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And that's all I've got to say about this subject for now. If you managed to read all the way to the end, good on you. Here's a cookie.

/me hops off the soapbox

[Edit: Posts now squeaky clean.]
Edited by Zandrae on 1/15/2014 2:07 PM PST
90 Human Warrior
11940
Requested Sticky.

A very useful guide for those who are RP'ing and aren't aware of the fact that during interactions the other character must be allowed to respond in their way. If you try and say they can't act in the way that the personality/character would then you basically are gimping the roleplay to make it unfun for anyone involved.

Props to Zandrae for writing this I hope others read this and realize that to make it realistic you have to do this.
70 Human Paladin
15295
You know, I agree with Ashok on this.

This post is both well written and objectively covers some important topics that many RPer's seem to only have a vague grasp on. It definitely belongs at the top of the page with the other guides.

Vote for sticky!
(EDIT: Remember to "Like" it too, like we did when we got Meep's guide stickied.)
Edited by Istella on 7/10/2013 4:27 PM PDT
100 Blood Elf Hunter
15190
Requested Sticky!

Very well thought out and written Zandrae. Something that all beginning role players should be made to read.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
12630
Agree. Sticky this. Wonderfully written. :)
22 Undead Warlock
0
I keep wanting to read this in its entirety, but I haven't had enough time. However, the snippets I did read were masterfully written, and covered the topic splendidly. I'm going to be a sheep, agree with the others, like the post, and request it for a sticky. Kudos, (wo?)man!
83 Blood Elf Warlock
9075
A lot of truths in this topic. Sticky definately in order to alert people that they don't have to put up with people trying to pull that sort of thing on them.
90 Blood Elf Rogue
2785
Sticky! Well written, sir. And a must read for those beginning to RP, and maybe even those who have been doing it for a while.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
Thanks for your feedback guys.
100 Night Elf Monk
12900
Requested Sticky I say!
24 Blood Elf Monk
6635
This needs more attention, it should stay at the top and allow everyone to learn the right ways to rp. To be fair to everyone and not just to some. It is called common courtesy. Something I find seriously lacking in the WOW community.

Not everyone of course, but way too many. It causes people who are nice to give up and leave the game, or to put so many people on ignore it fills the list.
100 Blood Elf Priest
11595
I love this. Joining in the request for a sticky! <3
100 Human Warrior
15975
I'll throw in my sticky.

Zan, you're a cool person. Keep up the good work.

Also, I want your babies because of this thread now.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16840
Ilu too Ag.... but I don't do mpreg... let alone cross-faction mpreg.
90 Tauren Paladin
12155
This...I've been preaching this for a very, very long while. It's nice to hear another take on the whole RP needs trust in order to work. Bravo. I, too, would like to request a sticky.

If you want to take a gander at some of my thoughts on this, feel free to take a look. It's a bit shorter, but has the same general message:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377378234?page=2#30

Also, I know it's mostly irrelevant to the post as a whole, but I wanted to answer your question.

07/10/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Zandrae
He essentially exposed himself to someone when that someone's significant other was pretty much right next to him. What do you think is going to happen?


Well, obviously he wanted someone to call out "Wow, what a Dick."
Edited by Varor on 7/15/2013 6:43 AM PDT
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