World of Warcraft®

03/23/2014 02:45 PMPosted by Vynathlon

To be fair, the invasion of Ashenvale has been going on since Vanilla, far before Malfurion woke up so once he became informed of what was going on, he must have known about the Horde and did nothing about it.

Malfurion only woke up after the Lich King had been defeated, which... how long before the Shattering was that, again?

And what makes the Twilight's Hammer a higher priority than the Horde? Sure I can understand during the questline that he didn't know Mount Hyjal was being attacked so he had to choose between Darkshore and Ashenvale, and I can understand that the Twilight's Hammer was a malevolent cult with the power to completely destroy Darkshore if it wanted to, but the Horde is almost as bad. With no interference, they would completely destroy all of Ashenvale and turn it into another Barrens.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason the Twilight's Hammer is a higher priority than the Horde is the part where they're trying to end the entire world and bring about the return of some of the most horrific beings in the known universe. Meanwhile, the Horde is merely making war with the Night Elves during an ambitious land grab.

Both of these are serious threats to his people, but between the two, I'd chalk up the Twilight's Hammer as a more pressing concern.

As for Darkshore's importance, have you been to Darkshore lately? The whole region is shredded up, flooded, and generally looks like it's sinking into the ocean. That's after Malfurion started using his power to hold the entire area together. Without him, the region likely would've sank into the ocean, along with any nearby lands. Teldrassil's not exactly floating on the back of a turtle, y'know.

Other areas connected directly to Darkshore both on the surface and underwater: Felwood, Ashenvale, and those two islands the Draenei use for their home base. From there we have Winterspring, Azshara, Hyjal, Stonetalon, and the Barrens. And from there... well, you get the idea, yes? The entirety of Kalimdor would be in jeopardy if the Twilight's Hammer activity in Darkshore weren't stopped.

Meanwhile, since you brought up Wolfheart... doesn't that novel prove that the Horde ultimately can't take Ashenvale? The army present there during Cata questing is a disorganized mess that only succeeds because of player involvement, and is a far cry from the army present in Wolfheart. On the Alliance side, the Night Elves easily push back and recover all the land they lost.

03/23/2014 04:17 PMPosted by Vynathlon

...

Cenarius is a Demi-God. Standard rules need not apply.

Given Malfurion's extreme power and influence wouldn't you consider him to be on the level of demigod as well?

He isn't the son of an Ancient and Elune, so not really.

03/23/2014 04:01 PMPosted by Amadis

UVG says this

It also says, under the Night Elf section, that Malfurion was specifically their first Druid. It also later mentions Xarantaur by name.

03/23/2014 04:01 PMPosted by Amadis

Nethaera also posted this back in 04/11/2006:

In 2006?

You mean, before WoTLK was even released?

03/23/2014 04:01 PMPosted by Amadis

Xarantaur doesn't say he was the first druid. He doesn't even say he was the first tauren druid. Just one of them. Malfurion was also taught before the legion, before the sundering, when the world was still young, and putting everything together, before Xarantaur.

What? Have you read the War of the Ancients trilogy? Malfurion was only just beginning to learn the Druidic arts around the time of the Sundering.

03/23/2014 05:36 PMPosted by Darstine

...Given Malfurion's extreme power and influence wouldn't you consider him to be on the level of demigod as well?

He isn't the son of an Ancient and Elune, so not really.

To be fair, while Arthas was still alive, some people considered the Lich King to be a demigod.

03/23/2014 05:57 PMPosted by Vynathlon

To be fair, while Arthas was still alive, some people considered the Lich King to be a demigod.

Demigods arent really that powerful anyway.

Grom killed one no problem.

Are there any other demigods aside from Cenarius?

03/23/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Veloran

It also says, under the Night Elf section, that Malfurion was specifically their first Druid. It also later mentions Xarantaur by name.

As the UVG says he is the first druid that does indeed technically make him the first Night Elf druid as well. The reverse does not exclude the first. The description of being the first Night Elf druid in no logical way can invalidate being the first druid.

03/23/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Veloran

You mean, before WoTLK was even released?

Her quote invalidates Forestlord and the first Druids, also given to us before WotLK was released.

03/23/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Veloran

What? Have you read the War of the Ancients trilogy? Malfurion was only just beginning to learn the Druidic arts around the time of the Sundering.

We also have these accounts from the Warcraft Encyclopedia, which was published November 2, 2006, while the War of the Ancients trilogy was released during 2004 and 2005:

Malfurion is the fraternal twin of Illidan Stormrage and, like his brother, grew up as the friend of Tyrande Whisperwind millennia before the Great Sundering. One day Malfurion came across several legends that referenced a reclusive demigod of the forests. Malfurion had always had great reverence for the natural world, although the night elves as a race had long since abandoned any interest in such matters. He shared the legends of Cenarius with Illidan and Tyrande. The three night elves decided that it would be an exciting adventure to search for the demigod, though in truth they no more believed in Cenarius than the rest of their people did.

It wasn't long before scattered plants and animals of Azeroth brought tidings of these night elves to Cenarius. Surprised and intrigued, Cenarius located the night elves and looked into their hearts. He saw great promise in Malfurion, a promise that made up Cenarius' mind.

The laughing trio was shocked into silence when Cenarius stepped out of a shadowed thicket. He introduced himself and offered to teach them the druidic arts. They accepted eagerly. Malfurion proved a quick and talented student, but his brother was clumsy and quickly grew impatient. For her part, Tyrande was already a novice in the Sisterhood of Elune and so had dedicated herself to the goddess above all others. Malfurion alone would go on to become a druid.

Invasion of the Burning Legion

Malfurion made significant progress in his studies before he was assailed by a disturbing vision: the Highborne were abusing the Well of Eternity's magics. The vision gave him the strong conviction that Queen Azshara and her high-ranking spellcasters would bring about a catastrophe unless someone intervened. The night elf brought his concerns to Cenarius, who was greatly worried.

Even so, the night elves realized what was happening too late. Demons poured out of the royal palace and began to slaughter everything in their path. The War of the Ancients had begun.

Which literally places Malfurion's studies before the legion.

03/23/2014 06:23 PMPosted by Amadis

The laughing trio was shocked into silence when Cenarius stepped out of a shadowed thicket. He introduced himself and offered to teach them the druidic arts. They accepted eagerly. Malfurion proved a quick and talented student, but his brother was clumsy and quickly grew impatient. For her part, Tyrande was already a novice in the Sisterhood of Elune and so had dedicated herself to the goddess above all others. Malfurion alone would go on to become a druid.

Question: Does that mean that Illidan and Tyrande know some Druidic magics?

03/23/2014 06:27 PMPosted by Vynathlon

Question: Does that mean that Illidan and Tyrande know some Druidic magics?

Yes to both. Specifically for Illidan we get from the Warcraft Encyclopedia:

Illidan is the fraternal twin of Malfurion Stormrage and, like his brother, grew up as the friend of Tyrande Whisperwind millennia before the Great Sundering. Unlike Malfurion, Illidan had no patience for the subtleties of druidism and proved to be a poor student despite their teacher, the demigod Cenarius.

Yet Illidan was talented at sorcery, which at the time was a staple of night elf society. His magical abilities were cold comfort, though, for he had been born with golden eyes, which were quite rare in night elves before the Sundering. Golden eyes were thus commonly regarded as a sign of future greatness, but Illidan showed no signs of achieving anything out of the ordinary. Little did Illidan know that his eyes actually indicated strong druidic potential.

And a follow up, for Tyrande in the Warcraft Encyclopedia we got:

For her part, Tyrande was glad to learn what she could from Cenarius. Nonetheless, she was already a novice in the Sisterhood of Elune and so had dedicated herself to the goddess above all others. Malfurion alone would go on to become a druid.

03/23/2014 06:23 PMPosted by Amadis

Her quote invalidates Forestlord and the first Druids, also given to us before WotLK was released.

And yet Xarantaur backs up the statements in Forestlord and the first Druids, and he came into existence after her quote.

03/23/2014 06:23 PMPosted by Amadis

Which literally places Malfurion's studies before the legion.

Xarantaur also became a Druid before the Legion. Meaning, even if we were to consider Malfurion to be the first Druid, it wasn't exactly by a stretch.

If anything, Darstine's point rings the most true - That Malfurion and the Tauren were taught almost concurrently.

UVG states Malfurion is the first druid. Xarantaur only states he was one of the first Tauren druids. Nethaera invalidated Forestlord and the first Druids, nor does Xarantaur make any statements of Taurens being before Night Elves, only before the legion. Xarantaur uses a Darnassian title for Cenarius, implying Night Elves came first. What rings most true is Malfurion was the first druid and Xarantaur and other tauren came after. Could be shortly after, but still after.

I don't like Malfurion because I hate Druids in general.

Always spreading trees where trees don't belong.

Hamuul and Tonga Runetotem seem good though.

03/23/2014 06:53 PMPosted by Rokugan

I don't like Malfurion because I hate Druids in general.

Always spreading trees where trees don't belong.

What do you mean? Before Malfurion's wonderful presence, the Firelands was conspicuously void of any trees. Now we have to have some trees in the Firelands right? Think of the nice fertile soil found there, it would be great for plants.

Hamuul was the one who proposed the eternal vigil with said tree.

1. He placed the practice of the Arcane under prohibition, punishable by death.
2. He foiled Illidan's attempt to destroy the Frozen Throne
3. The fool pretentiously denied the Kaldorei immortality when offered it by Nozdormu at the end of Dragon Soul.
4. "Hush Tyrande"
5. He never does anything but sleeps.
6. He takes credit for everything while killing off the opposition.
7. He's neutral and bent the Kaldorei over while they got treatment in Cataclysm.
8. He decided to teach the lesser races and the ENEMY, Druidism, sharing a secret art over ten thousand years old, in under half a decade.
9. He completely destroyed Kaldorei culture in its previous form and indoctrinated its present society into a bunch of hippy druid lovers, whereas Druidism was a little known and oft scoffed path in the past.
10. He put his brother in a hole deep underground for 10k year and FORGOT about him. Illidan's ability to withstand the influence of the Old Gods must have been incredible.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

1. He placed the practice of the Arcane under prohibition, punishable by death.

The practice of magic had drawn the attention of world ending demons and was also known to be addictive to the detriment of one's health, so the ban had reason, but even then Malfurion didn't actually have anyone killed ever in actuality.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

2. He foiled Illidan's attempt to destroy the Frozen Throne

Unfortunately Illidan's attempt was also destroying the world, so ot had to be stopped.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

3. The fool pretentiously denied the Kaldorei immortality when offered it by Nozdormu at the end of Dragon Soul.

What? You mean Demon Soul, the second book of the War of the Ancients trilogy? Because Night Elves had immortality from the planting of Nordrassil to ten-thousand years latter. So that's not true if that's what you mean. Do you mean Dragon Soul as in the instances at the end of Cataclysm that took down Deathwing? Because Nozdormu never offered immortality them, and in fact lost his own. So that's not true, either. As far as I am aware, Malfurion has never turned down making the Night Elves immortal again.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

4. "Hush Tyrande"

I strongly believe this was simply meant as Malfurion wanting Tyrande to rest and not push herself when she used so much of her strength to save them. I just don't think this played across correctly is all.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

5. He never does anything but sleeps.

He's awake now, and when he was sleeping it was to defend us from the world ending Nightmare.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

6. He takes credit for everything while killing off the opposition.

This statement make so little sense I don't know where you got the idea of him takinh credit for anything, even less so killing competition.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

7. He's neutral and bent the Kaldorei over while they got treatment in Cataclysm.

He both went on rescue missions for his people at the beginning of the Cataclysm, specificallu Feralas for example, and personally held Darkshore together from being torn apart before he had to go save his and everyone else's people from the bigger threat of Ragnaros.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

8. He decided to teach the lesser races and the ENEMY, Druidism, sharing a secret art over ten thousand years old, in under half a decade.

Tauren were allies to the Night Elves, nor are they a lesser race, and Cenarius himself was known to teach tauren before he was killed.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

9. He completely destroyed Kaldorei culture in its previous form and indoctrinated its present society into a bunch of hippy druid lovers, whereas Druidism was a little known and oft scoffed path in the past.

Kaldorei culture destroyed itself when Azshara showed her true colors and summoned the Burning Legion. As the tyrant and her insane followers were overthrown it made sense that a new shift in the Night Elves' society was called for, and that those who overthrew the previous corrupt society would become a leading class.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

10. He put his brother in a hole deep underground for 10k year and FORGOT about him.

Like his empty threat to kill anyone practicing magic, Malfurion could not kill his own brother, and it probably took and emotional toll on Malfurion for those ten-thousand years of having had to lock his brother away. Malfurion probably always wanted to let Illidan go free, and Tyrande just gave him the excuses to finally do so.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

Illidan's ability to withstand the influence of the Old Gods must have been incredible.

Illidan is awesome.

03/26/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Galidrethil

8. He decided to teach the lesser races and the ENEMY, Druidism, sharing a secret art over ten thousand years old, in under half a decade.

He taught them during the Legion invasion during the 3rd war. They were allies during that time

03/27/2014 06:01 PMPosted by Lilyphoebe

As far as I am aware, Malfurion has never turned down making the Night Elves immortal again.

at the end of stormrage nozdormu offers to bless nordrassil to restore the night elves immortality and malfurion refused because he thought the night elves needed to learn to die

03/27/2014 06:12 PMPosted by Zaoda

at the end of stormrage nozdormu offers to bless nordrassil to restore the night elves immortality and malfurion refused because he thought the night elves needed to learn to die

Well look what immortality did to a majority of their race who had to live through it.

In W3 Malf notices that Tyrande became very bitter and agressive during her years compared to War of the ancients personality. Compare War of the Ancients Tyrande to ALP tyrande.

03/27/2014 06:29 PMPosted by Renrashin

03/27/2014 06:12 PMPosted by Zaoda

at the end of stormrage nozdormu offers to bless nordrassil to restore the night elves immortality and malfurion refused because he thought the night elves needed to learn to die

Well look what immortality did to a majority of their race who had to live through it.

In W3 Malf notices that Tyrande became very bitter and agressive during her years compared to War of the ancients personality. Compare War of the Ancients Tyrande to ALP tyrande.

That has nothing to do with immortality.
Well, not directly anyway.

It more has to do with being away from the man she loved for almost ten thousand years straight.
And then have everything go to hell in the span of a couple of weeks, including Cenarius getting killed.