World of Warcraft®

03/27/2014 06:12 PMPosted by Zaoda

at the end of stormrage nozdormu offers to bless nordrassil to restore the night elves immortality and malfurion refused because he thought the night elves needed to learn to die

What? No he didn't. Nozdormu wasn't even in Stormrage. Nozdormu was lost in the timeways until Twilight of the Aspects when Thrall found him and pulled him out.

03/27/2014 06:54 PMPosted by Lilyphoebe

What? No he didn't. Nozdormu wasn't even in Stormrage. Nozdormu was lost in the timeways until Twilight of the Aspects when Thrall found him and pulled him out.

was it not stormrage?

hm

doesnt really matter tbh

malfurion refusing to allowed teldrassil to be properly blessed and restore the night elves immortality was the prime reason why maiev hated him in wolfheart, so that means it happened prior

its so weird that one guy believed he had the authority to act on behalf of his entire race

especially now that hes responsible for every death due to aging

Maiev was wrong, Malfurion never turned down immortality. I had a whole thread on this:

09/09/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Lilyphoebe

"Everyone cheers him for his part in getting Teldrassil cleansed and purified of the Nightmare's taint, but they forget that he also fought against getting the World Tree properly blessed! Said that it was time the night elves actually lived in their world. Death was welcome! You might say that he killed your precious Shalasyr, Jarod! She would be just fine forever immortal, if he had not decided he knew best for all of us!"
-Maiev, Wolfheart

Now, you might not like Malfurion, or that he might point out the cons to being immortal, especially when it comes be being immortal versus saving the world, but looking at the chain of events we have to deal with, Malfurion pretty much never has the opportunity to turn down or deny the restoration of the Night Elves' immortality. Really, before the growing of Teldrassil, Maiev's claims might be somewhat wrong, as there is little proof that Malfurion did argue against blessing Teldrassil, nor would it have been his choice for those blessings to be granted in the first place.

To start, from the original World of Warcraft Night Elves intro, what we are told is that Malfurion gave Fandral

"warnings that nature would never bless such a selfish act"

From what little phrasing this gives us we don't know much more about those warning. We don't know if Malfurion tried to forbid Fandral from growing Teldrassil, nor do we have a statement that he tried to talk anyone out of giving blessings to Teldrassil. What we actually do know is that Malfurion wouldn't have even gotten the chance to do so whether or not he would want to.

Throughout the revamped Teldrassil in the Night Elf starting zone quests we are met by a Shade of the Kaldorei and given an overview of the Night Elves' history since the Battle of Mount Hyjal.

Shade of the Kaldorei says:

Much has changed for our people since the Battle of Mount Hyjal.

Nordrassil lies a pale shadow of what it once was, its power used to defeat Archimonde and drive back the Burning Legion.

Our immortality-the very essence of our beings!-was lost.

The Betrayer was freed from his prison, and Shan'do Stormrage disappeared into the emerald dream.

A dark time for all.

With Malfurion Stormrage gone, the druids were left in disarray and in desperate need of a new leader.

Arch Druid Fandral Staghelm roused the druids and convinced the Circle of Ancients in Darkshore that it was time for our people to rebuild.

In an effort to regain immortality for our people, and with the approval of the Circle, Staghelm and the most powerful druids grew Teldrassil, upon whose boughs you now stand.

Though we have our new home, our immortal lives have not been restored.

The Arch Druid approached the dragons for their blessings, as the dragons had placed on Nordrassil in ancient times.

But Nozdormu, Lord of Time, refused to give his blessing, chiding the druid for his arrogance.

In agreement, Alexstrasza also refused Staghelm, and without her blessing, Teldrassil's growth has been flawed and unpredictable.

Staghelm retreated to his enclave in Darnassus, ever seeking a new direction by which to bless Teldrassil, and restore the immortality of our people.

In weeks past, all of those living atop Teldrassil have found their memories blurry, as if time itself seized a portion of their lives.

We break from this haze to find that Fandral Staghelm and many of his closest followers have disappeared without a word.

But in his place, Shan'do Stormrage awoke from the dream and returned to his beloved Tyrande Whisperwind.

And with his return came Alexstrasza and Ysera, to at long last offer their blessings upon Teldrassil.

Though a small corruption lingers, desperately longing to be cleansed, the boughs of Teldrassil itself seem changed. Growth has begun anew.

None know what to expect next, but with Malfurion and Tyrande reunited, a new hope dawns on the Kaldorei.

Hope for lasting relief from the shadow that has been cast on our people for so long.

So what we have is that Fandral proposed growing Teldrassil, Malfurion warned Fandral that this would not restore our immortality, and then Malfurion disapears. From the novel Stormrage it is revealed than Fandral himself was the one who made Malfurion disappear by using Morrowgrain to poison him and keep him in the Emerald Dream.

It is then not until After Malfurion has been cut off from the world that Fandral went ahead and grew Teldrassil, and not until after the tree was grown that Fandral went to get the blessings from the Aspects. Malfurion, being kept away by Fandral, couldn't have made any arguments against the blessing of Teldrassil at this time, as Fandral made sure that Malfurion couldn't have been there to say anything at all.

It turned out Malfurion's warnings were right, however, at least indirectly. Nozdormu refused the blessing. It was Nozdormu who denied the Night Elves the restoration of their immortality. Now it might have been because of Fandral's arrogance in creating such an unnatural tree, or it might have been because of Fandral's breaking of the union between the dragons and the Night Elves and in turn tainting Nozdormu's opinion of all people. But for whatever reason it was, Alexstrasza agreed with Nozdormu and did not grant her blessing, either.

Though it would turn out that Alexstrasza blessing was irrelevant to the Night Elves' immortality, as would be Ysera's blessing. With the conclusion of Stormrage, which the Shade of the Kaldorei described as, "In weeks past, all of those living atop Teldrassil have found their memories blurry, as if time itself seized a portion of their lives," Fandral was defeated, Malfurion saved by Tyrande awakens from the dream, and Alextrasza and Ysera give Teldrassil their blessings.

Yet the Night Elves are still mortal. Nor did Malfurion argue against Alextrasza and Ysera blessing Teldrassil. He didn't stop them, nor tell them to water down their blessings so that the Night Elves wouldn't be immortal. But ultimately it was once again Nozdormu who had the ultimate say in whether or not the Night Elves would be immortal.

But the problem is that Nozdormu wasn't around. From the beginning of World of Warcraft, Norzdormu had been missing. We deal with his broods, fight against C'Thun and his Qiraji and Silithid for them, and then throughout Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King we fight against the Infinite Dragonflight for them. But even when Malfurion finally awakens, Nozdormu is nowhere to be found.

During Wolfheart, where Maiev accuses Malfurion of arguing against blessing Teldrassil Nozdormu was still missing in action and wouldn't have been around to even listen to any such arguments, whether or not they were made. It was not until long after this claim that Nozdormu would come back to the world. Not until after the revamped events of Darkshore and not until after the initial questing through Hyjal. Not until Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects where Thrall finally brings Nozdormu back to the world.

As such, from before the time of Teldrassil's growth, all the way until far after Maiev accused Malfurion of denying the Night Elves immortality, Malfurion wouldn't ever have even gotten the chance to make any such denials. Regardless of whether he wanted to or not.

This leaves only one small window in which something odd occurred. In Rage of the Firelands, Malfurion is awake and Nozdormu is present. Nordrassil is healed and in such a way that it implies it heals Azeroth and closes all the rifts and weaknesses between Azeroth and the Elemental Planes. We don't get to see this. For all intensive purposes this should have restored the Night Elves' immortality, too. But, as we see in Mists of Pandaria, it does not.

For whatever reason, Nozdormu did not make the Night Elves immortal again, and now he has lost any chance to do so, as shortly after returning to the world, Nozdormu, and the whole world for that matter, had to use all its force to deal with Deathwing. And in turn, Nozdormu, and all the Aspects, lost their power. Nozdormu, now as mortal as the Night Elves themselves, cannot bless either Teldrassil or Nordrassil.

Why didn't he? We don't know. I would say it's most likely because he was too preoccupied. Between the revelation that he would be responsible for the Infinite Dragonflight, having to plan and alter the timeline to grab the Dragon Soul from the past while working around the mechanization that prevent him from doing so by his own future self, and then having to prepare and use the Dragon Soul immediately, there was probably just no time or maybe even thought given to restoring the Night Elves' immortality.

One could also suggest that in this short window of time between coming back to the world and no longer being the Aspect of Time Malfurion could have gone up to Nozdormu and told him not to make the Night Elves immortal. But we have no actual evidence of this. So ultimately, while Malfurion might note that there are reasons why being mortal might be beneficial within all the reasons it would not be, as far as canon goes, Malfurion hasn't ever actually denied the Night Elves the restoration of their immortality.

TL;DR:

Malfurion could not have denied the Night Elves their immortality.

i have nowhere near a lengthy enough counter for that nor the inclination to do so lmao

im willing to be one of our pro-night posters already has a proper counter to that so ill leave it to them instead

There was a whole thread on this: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9882329119 . As far as I can tell, no one had any counter arguments.

You make some good points Lilyphoebe, and thank you for that read.

Still, that does not change Malfurion's beliefs against the reinstatement of Kaldorei immortality, and given his prior thoughts and actions, it would certainly be characteristic of him to deny or protest the efforts of Nozdormu, had the timeless one indeed made an attempt to bless Teldrassil.

I don't believe that's true. The only arguments Malfurion really put out in seriousness was Saving the world is more important than not aging. And even now, some Night Elves are still trying to get our immortaliyu back. Though I wish we would just get it back and not have that be the carrot on a stick for our stories any more.

I love Stormrage.

Illidan Stormrage.

03/28/2014 12:23 PMPosted by Lilyphoebe

I don't believe that's true. The only arguments Malfurion really put out in seriousness was Saving the world is more important than not aging. And even now, some Night Elves are still trying to get our immortaliyu back. Though I wish we would just get it back and not have that be the carrot on a stick for our stories any more.

Just tear down Nordrassil and tap the Well. As far as I know it's totally powerless now, and if it comes down to a big tree or the prosperity if your species most people should choose the latter.

OP: well, he´s hated for a good number of reasons, those reasond of course vary from player to player.

Personally I hated him and Tyrande because the treatment they delivered upon Illidan in WCIII... and the fact that Malfurion is a Mary Sue doesn´t help him in my case.

03/28/2014 04:13 PMPosted by Darstine

Just tear down Nordrassil and tap the Well. As far as I know it's totally powerless now, and if it comes down to a big tree or the prosperity if your species most people should choose the latter.

This, oddly enough, is plausibly true. The original Well of Eternity seemed to be the original source of the Night Elves' immortality, and Nozdormu's blessing on Nodrassil just seems to be a substitute for countering the new Well's power. Unfortunately Nordrassil also seems to unified so deeply with Azeroth itself that any damage to it would threaten the world itself as well, so I do not think taking Nordrassil down is a possibility.

03/28/2014 04:33 PMPosted by Lilyphoebe

This, oddly enough, is plausibly true. The original Well of Eternity seemed to be the original source of the Night Elves' immortality, and Nozdormu's blessing on Nodrassil just seems to be a substitute for countering the new Well's power. Unfortunately Nordrassil also seems to unified so deeply with Azeroth itself that any damage to it would threaten the world itself as well, so I do not think taking Nordrassil down is a possibility.

Nothing happened when they tore down Vordrassil in Northrend, and it was a world tree just like Nordrassil and Teldrassil. It doesn't seem to emit any magic anymore(or Winterspring wouldn't still be frozen), so I don't think uprooting it would cause anything to happen.

Vordrassil is just a regular world tree. Nordrassil was planted into the new Well of Eternity. And both Archimonde and Ragnaros were going to destroy Nordrassil as a means to destroy Azeroth. Voldrassil doesn't, nor any other world tree but Nordrassil, have that connection to Azeroth. So connected are they that it was said that healing Nordrassil fixed the breaches caused by the Cataclysm and sealed away the elemental planes again.

03/28/2014 04:13 PMPosted by Darstine

Just tear down Nordrassil and tap the Well. As far as I know it's totally powerless now, and if it comes down to a big tree or the prosperity if your species most people should choose the latter.

Malfurion and the rest of CC would object to this

03/28/2014 05:57 PMPosted by Renrashin

03/28/2014 04:13 PMPosted by Darstine

Just tear down Nordrassil and tap the Well. As far as I know it's totally powerless now, and if it comes down to a big tree or the prosperity if your species most people should choose the latter.

Malfurion and the rest of CC would object to this

Once again, because

03/28/2014 04:33 PMPosted by Lilyphoebe

Unfortunately Nordrassil also seems to unified so deeply with Azeroth itself that any damage to it would threaten the world itself as well, so I do not think taking Nordrassil down is a possibility.

Each time Malfurion take action, the Keldorai suffer.

Take out the Queen...

Blow the Well.

Take out Archimonde...

Blow the Tree.

He even make nature's problem pass before is people as show in the darkshore and in is and Tyrande short story.

He is suppose to be that uber powerfull archdruid, he as the backing of the direct conduit of Elune and instead of attacking Archmonde, he throw away is people immortality. Note that it's only is people immortality because HE and is druid are still immortal.

He is NOT a race leader material. He shown time and time again that he only care for nature. In WC3, the Druids, the ancients and the Dryads are part of the Keldorai force. With the creation of the CC, the Keldorai lost over 50% of their combat force and where send away from their home on Hyjal.

He need to choose between is people or the CC and we all know what the choice will be.

Posted by Renrashin
03/28/2014 04:13 PMPosted by Darstine
Just tear down Nordrassil and tap the Well. As far as I know it's totally powerless now, and if it comes down to a big tree or the prosperity if your species most people should choose the latter.

Malfurion and the rest of CC would object to this

Once again, because

03/28/2014 04:33 PMPosted by Lilyphoebe
Unfortunately Nordrassil also seems to unified so deeply with Azeroth itself that any damage to it would threaten the world itself as well, so I do not think taking Nordrassil down is a possibility.

Easy, take a 1/16 of the lake's water and recreate another lake elsewhere. not one flask like the high elf did for the sunwell. Should do the trick to return the NE to immortality and power.

Don't know if this reason was given but one thing I really hate is that every single Night Elf Druid is basically a clone of Malfurion, the entire Cenarion Circle might as well be a group of mini-Malfurions.

Fandral was unique and he got villain batted and killed. Broll Bearmantle could have been unique... but then Knaak got a hold of him and made him an Archdruid and now he's just a Malfurion clone like every other Druid character.

03/18/2014 08:10 AMPosted by Elthrendas

"To stand in the way of nature is heresy, even when nature is destructive."

Regardless of t,he person, the above quote is disgusting in e, very way. As a real person, I believe that we can, and are obligated to, alter the course of nature if it means saving lives from destruction. I have no respect for M?alfurion inf this horrendous quote is from him.

I agree, but right after this he calls the cataclysm unnatural and, when he says it, he is actively using the power of nature to fight the destruction.