World of Warcraft®

01/09/2011 3:33 PMPosted by Skyperion

What I got from this thread, was that many role-players who I respected are incredulously close-minded.

I understand your disappointment. I myself wanted to play a transformer from Cybertron. Unfortunately I was constantly ridiculed. Just because they're not in lore currently doesn't mean they won't be. I mean, asides from Outland space hasn't been explored, in the WoW universe Cybertron could very well be out there deep in space.

Very well said, Skyperion! It's a shame that you are called a "bad role-player" simply because of the imagination you have.

01/09/2011 8:12 PMPosted by Derian

Go ahead and roleplay a Drow in the game. I am sure you will find a handful of people who will agree that all of us "lore hounds" are being close-minded. Then you and your handful of followers can roleplay amongst yourselves, and break all the lore you want. Just don't expect to be able to roleplay with anyone outside of your little circle.

This. There's a difference between being "open-minded" and just stubbornly refusing to accept that other universes simply don't exist in WoW. People in this thread calling others close-minded fall in the second category.

Tip for any new people trying to find a place on these forums: Stay away from the second category. You came on the Roleplaying Forum of World of Warcraft to play using the lore of World of Warcraft. If not, have fun being ignored in-game by people that don't share your extreme "open-minded" thinking.

Sorry if that was harsh, but it lately seems like the wrong crowd of RPers is influencing the new guys. I want them to be good.

01/09/2011 8:15 PMPosted by Ziggo

What I got from this thread, was that many role-players who I respected are incredulously close-minded.

I understand your disappointment. I myself wanted to play a transformer from Cybertron. Unfortunately I was constantly ridiculed. Just because they're not in lore currently doesn't mean they won't be. I mean, asides from Outland space hasn't been explored, in the WoW universe Cybertron could very well be out there deep in space.

*cough hack wheeze splutter*

Aaaaaaand there goes my keyboard. Dammit, gnome!

01/09/2011 8:22 PMPosted by Vaellithorn

Very well said, Skyperion! It's a shame that you are called a "bad role-player" simply because of the imagination you have.

Not to be overly blunt, but do yourself a favor and search for examples of his work before you blindly call him good. Hell, do that for me too.

Then again, I'm not sure how willing you are to learn from others given your responses. *shrug*

01/09/2011 8:29 PMPosted by Zeria

Not to be overly blunt, but do yourself a favor and search for examples of his work before you blindly call him good. Hell, do that for me too.

Then again, I'm not sure how willing you are to learn from others given your responses. *shrug*

Very well, I will search for his works. I still agree with what he stated, except for his understanding on the drow.

01/09/2011 8:26 PMPosted by Zeria

Sorry if that was harsh, but it lately seems like the wrong crowd of RPers is influencing the new guys. I want them to be good.

Yes.

I would say something that would add to this thread, but I have nothing that hasn't already been said. I just wanted to agree with this (and the rest of the post there)... I'm going to click post before I write a whole bunch of crap.

There's a difference between a Drow, and a Drow-like personality. It also doesn't help that the first Drow character most people think of is Drizzt Do'Urden, who is either universally loved as TeH mOsT aWeSuM eLf EVAR~ or universally despised as an overwrought, overdramatic Mary Sue. (It all depends on who you talk to.) Most people associate Drow with the Forgotten Realms/Dungeons and Dragons type of Drow, black skinned and white haired elves who dwell underground in a sadistic matriarchal society and worshippers of Lolth, the spider goddess. And these are D&D elves, to boot. Short, willowy, poncy, and with sanely-sized pointed ears. Not a dark skinned night elf or a black-skinned deathknight with white hair.

Drow, as the term goes, do not exist in WoW. Not even Eberron's Drow; taller, brown-skinned and not-evil worshippers of scorpions from Xen'Drik.

Those "elves that live in the dark woods north of the Ghostlands"? They have a name. They're called Blood Elves. That's the name they're given. They're not secretly Drow all wearing whiteface and wigs. If they were Drow, they sure as hell wouldn't be following a male leader like Anasterian, Kael'thas, or even Lor'Themar, and they wouldn't go around in a city that's eternally springtime and sunny. There's a reason why Drow live in the Underdark, and it's not just because it's conveniently located underground.

That's not to say you can't be "Drow-like". You don't even need to be an elf to be a cruel, sadistic, backstabbing, poison-brewing, spider-loving vicious motherfather. The point of roleplaying in World of Warcraft is to play within boundaries. Coloring in the lines, if you will. Exercising restraint and creativity within a boundary is a grand display of responsibility, self control, and creativity. You're given rules, you play with them. You don't show up to a football game and expect to play baseball, do you?

This is one of the most well thought-out posts so far. Because of Pahana, I am able to see what most other role-players in World of Warcraft see. Why? Because the logic she has stated in her post is not overshadowed by overreacting and labeling (directly or indirectly) that makes people like me tempted to disagree. And she explained why one would want to role-play as a drow, instead of the races in the Warcraft universe. She even stated that one can be drow-like without "breaking" the lore of the Warcraft universe instead of saying one should not or can not do something. Even the last sentence of her post was enough to help me see it in a different way. Pahana, I applaud you.

01/09/2011 8:26 PMPosted by Zeria

Sorry if that was harsh, but it lately seems like the wrong crowd of RPers is influencing the new guys. I want them to be good.

I agree with this. Before I posted this thread, I was eager to get started in role-playing in World of Warcraft, even though I was not actually planning on role-playing as a drow. But, after seeing the reactions of most players in this thread, I lost interest.

01/09/2011 9:12 PMPosted by Vaellithorn

I agree with this. Before I posted this thread, I was eager to get started in role-playing in World of Warcraft, even though I was not actually planning on role-playing as a drow. But, after seeing the reactions of most players in this thread, I lost interest.

Well don't let me stop you from RPing. I'm sure you could be a great roleplayer if you just take the opinions of these guys into consideration first. That's all we were trying to do, I think.

I'm personally not trying to turn anyone off from roleplay or trying to scare them off, I just think people are getting the wrong ideas from the community.

Blizzard rhymes with lizard

I would also like to just inform you or add to this conversation. The problem with playing Drow in WoW is not so much there not being Drow in WoW because there are Drow in WoW (crap that rhymes)

As stated by a Blizzard employee several years ago. when creating the races of the game for classic they were trying to break the conventional stereotypes associated with popular "Tolkienized" fantasy. One small example is Orcs whoa re not evil or rather not automatically perceived as evil. Another of thier revolutionary non stereotypical innovations to the fantasy genre was to create a race "Dark Elves" who were not evil, and actual despised the use of arcane magic and embraced the path of nature.

That is right Night Elves -ARE- Dark Elves. They simply are not called Dark Elves because use of the term and the whole notion and idea behind Dark Elves in general, thanks in no small part to writers such as Salvatore, has become too cliche to actually be considered even close to anything even resembling "creative".

01/09/2011 9:09 PMPosted by Vaellithorn

This is one of the most well thought-out posts so far. Because of Pahana, I am able to see what most other role-players in World of Warcraft see. Why? Because the logic she has stated in her post is not overshadowed by overreacting and labeling (directly or indirectly) that makes people like me tempted to disagree. And she explained why one would want to role-play as a drow, instead of the races in the Warcraft universe. She even stated that one can be drow-like without "breaking" the lore of the Warcraft universe instead of saying one should not or can not do something. Even the last sentence of her post was enough to help me see it in a different way. Pahana, I applaud you.

You're quite welcome, sir and/or madam. When I first started playing D&D many misty moons ago, my 12-ish self hated the Drow. Why? A'cause aside from being a terminal arachnophobe, I couldn't quite grasp the concept of being evil for evil's sake, and of Lolth being so cruel as to punish those she found unworthy of worshipping her into Driders, these overgrown half-spider-half-person things. (Again, there's that terminal arachnophobia.) When I got older and hit my "dark 'n edgy teenager" years, spiders still scared the ever living pooh out of me, but Drow were AWESOME otherwise. Drow were, to quote Penny Arcade, f*cking metal.

Thankfully I'm no longer an idiot teenager and out of my Drizzt Do'Urden phase (Salvatore writes a much better Dwarf than he does anything else - Pickle is without a doubt the best character in the series) and I don't fawn over Elric of Melnibone anymore ... but I still rather fancy Drow. They're one of the only elf races I like - and I'm someone who says that the first and last well-written elf were the ones you find in The Silmarillon.

There's a time and a place to play a Drow, and sadly, WoW isn't one of them. The game mechanics enforce player characters being too Good-Aligned, and even if you want to dip into an Evil or Chaotic character you've got to pretty much do so in secret, as, hello? City guard? (If we're sticking to good RP here, and not rubbing our hands together all Snidely Whiplash style out in the middle of the street for all to see.) One, like I said, can still be a Drow in personality alone, but it takes some finesse and to not put "POISON BREWAN 'N ASSASSINATAN~" as your MRP title or anything of the sort.

[edit]: Typo~

01/09/2011 8:22 PMPosted by Vaellithorn

Very well said, Skyperion! It's a shame that you are called a "bad role-player" simply because of the imagination you have.

It's not fair to praise yourself.

I also sense a troll, but it could just be me. It seems it is succeeding.

01/09/2011 10:55 PMPosted by Zizix

That is right Night Elves -ARE- Dark Elves.

No...Just NO. stop trying to justfiy Drow in WoW!

They...Are...NIGHT Elves! Not Dark Elves, not Drow, NIGHT Elves. Blizzard have made their lore their way. and no amount of second guessing or poking at flimsy accusations will change that.
So please just let it go already.

01/09/2011 11:37 PMPosted by Rraazz

That is right Night Elves -ARE- Dark Elves.

No...Just NO. stop trying to justfiy Drow in WoW!

They...Are...NIGHT Elves! Not Dark Elves, not Drow, NIGHT Elves. Blizzard have made their lore their way. and no amount of second guessing or poking at flimsy accusations will change that.
So please just let it go already.

Most evidence points to the mysterious dark elves as being an early developmental form of the night elves. It is hinted that the dark elves, possibly along with others (the book says, "others came, lesser forms, minute life spans"),[4] had something to do with releasing the Burning Legion on Azeroth. According to interviews and references made in The Art of Warcraft and on the The Making of World of Warcraft DVD, night elves were based off the dark elves of other fantasy settings (especially the drow from D&D), but their personality and culture were made to be the direct opposite of the culture and personality of dark elves. A story nearly identical to the one told about the dark elves in Day of the Dragon is later related to Khadgar in The Last Guardian by Medivh, where he gives these ancient magic-users a more familiar name: Kaldorei. It seems most likely, therefore, that the "dark elves" are in fact the night elves under an earlier name.

If you had the reading comprehension levels of a grade school child you would have understood I was not endorsing Drow in WoW I was merely pointing out the fact that Dark Elves exist in WoW and they are called Night Elves, as you can clearly see from the above quoted information provided by Wowpedia and the Art of and Making of WoW DVD.

They are not nor will they ever be Drow and it is not creative to make your Belf DK or Nelf [whatever] a Drow nor will it ever be. So perhaps before you quote a bloke and try to attack them with your righteous condemnation you might want to actually read -and- understand the post.

That is right Night Elves -ARE- Dark Elves.

No...Just NO. stop trying to justfiy Drow in WoW!

They...Are...NIGHT Elves! Not Dark Elves, not Drow, NIGHT Elves. Blizzard have made their lore their way. and no amount of second guessing or poking at flimsy accusations will change that.
So please just let it go already.

Yes, they are Night Elves, but early speculation from various sources hints that they were to be called "Dark Elves", in concurrence with other fantasy literature, most speculatively to the Moriquendi of Middle Earth, who preferred the starlit skies of Middle Earth before the Sun and Moon while the Elves of Elvenhome had daylight as provided by the Two Trees.

Drow doesn't mean Dark Elf, not does Dark Elf mean that the elf has dark skin - although it's a common fantasy trope in newer literature and anime.

greytext: Dammit Ziz got it out a half a second before me. /sadmoo

First off. I find it funny how you tell me off about being childish and insulting...By being childish and insulting right back. Yeah because that's the way to go...

Anyway, fine there is some lore hinting at it. But come on, Blizzard clearly states in all the stuff you quoted that they took the concept of a Dark Elf And made it the complete OPPOSITE.

If there the opposites of Dark Elves in personality and the like. Then it doesn't equal Dark Elves in my mind.

That's my two coppers wroth. I"m not debating this any further. This thread has been ridiculous from the start in my mind.

01/10/2011 1:35 AMPosted by Rraazz

First off. I find it funny how you tell me off about being childish and insulting...By being childish and insulting right back. Yeah because that's the way to go...

Anyway, fine there is some lore hinting at it. But come on, Blizzard clearly states in all the stuff you quoted that they took the concept of a Dark Elf And made it the complete OPPOSITE.

If there the opposites of Dark Elves in personality and the like. Then it doesn't equal Dark Elves in my mind.

That's my two coppers wroth. I"m not debating this any further. This thread has been ridiculous from the start in my mind.

<laughs> Might I point out that it was you dear who started this in an attempt to flame me without understanding my post first. Had you not accused me in your initial post of something I had not done it might of happened differently. Could'a, should'a, would'a, and all that.

I do enjoy that even given proof that Night Elves were developed as Azerothian Dark Elves and even called Dark Elves by the developers in the early stages of the game you still refuse to admit being wrong or even acknowledge the truth. There are far too many role players in WoW like you. However I am glad that you are so defeated as to no longer afflict us with your uninformed opinion on lore.

[Edit]
Also I would like to add I never called you childish or insulting, I simply commented on your reading comprehension levels as you clearly did not grasp the content of my post yet decided to attack me anyway. It was in all honestly me being insulting to you in retort for your unwarranted attack.

...*Facepalm* This is why the RP forums are losing quality...This is why RPers have a bad rep. Because as soon as someone disagress with one of us we all jump in and go "NO I"M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG!" And refuse to back down until they either leave or break down crying and conform to you.

ALl I'm getting from you're posts is that A: Blizzard dubbed them Dark Elves back when the concept was first pitched. And B: That they changed them to suit what they wanted in the end.

I look at it like this.

Is it a Dark Elf in name? No Is it a Dark Elf in personality? No. Sure they both love the dark. But that's about all they have in similarity's.

And now I'm backing out of this thread. No matter what i say or do you're just going to disagree and keep pulling stuff that hasn't mattered since Warcraft 3 came out. (You know, the game before WoW that had Nelfs in it?)

And no I don't consider myself *defeated* I'm just bored of talking to a brick wall that sticks it's fingers in it's ears and yells "Lalalalalala can't hear you!"

Everyone knows this argument is just going to go on and on until one of us quits anyway. So I'm just saving us both valuable time and rage by letting this thread die now.