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I don't want to see this happen to CC, with or without perma-deaths. What do y'all suggest to do about folks who flout the law and expect to get away scot-free?

It's been a problem for as long as people wanted to roleplay guilds as law enforcement. I did a stint in an EQ2 guild that was the police force and military for the evil city of Freeport. We would get some people who wanted to be captured and tortured and the like and everyone had a lot of fun batting them around--but we also got those who flaunted authority left and right and expected to get away with it. Since we were evil, most people expected that they were going to get called out for a stupid crime and then leveled with an equally stupid punishment because of it (we accused one short dark elf of Height Requirement Violations and put him in jail for a day just for that--nevermind he was taller than the officer who arrested him, lol).

That's something that our "supposed to be just" police guilds have a problem with, also. It can cause OOC upset if you get punished for something you don't expect to be punished for, or that you think OOCly is fair. In the evil guild, EVERYTHING was unfair, so all discipline was taken with a grain of salt and a round of laughing. Getting called out by a "good" guild means your character has truly done something wrong--and not everyone wants to admit to that.

Long story short, the best way to handle it besides not taking it so seriously was to ignore the RPer who couldn't take their punshiment. Trying to argue with them or force the RP on them did nothing but end up with a lot of OOC headaches and rifts in the RP community. We gave the people who wanted to be caught and tried their opportunity and many people loved us for it. (Had a few people carry out their perma-deaths via our public executions, spurred character development for more "criminals" than I can number, even had a long-running storyline with our local Zorro-like bandit.) The others we pretended were getting their fair dues by the NPC guards later, and simply left them alone.

I don't want to see this happen to CC, with or without perma-deaths. What do y'all suggest to do about folks who flout the law and expect to get away scot-free?

Agreed. We even held trials of very prominent horde rpers with some interesting results. It all goes very well as long as everyone communicates. I'm not saying it all has to be scripted, but people need to understand what the parameters are.

Not long ago we had a serial killer loose. He told people straight out, if you agree to this character being killed that means they are perm-killed not killed and rezzed. Mostly it went fine, until a couple changed their minds and decided, "no, I changed my mind, sorry."

The Watch has already had people who agreed to be arrested. They heard the conditions of confinement and then magically escaped anyway.

The only thing you can do is lay things out so everyone understands. Then you have to accept some people are going to change their minds and do what they said they wouldn't do. You just have to ignore it and go on.

As for your experience on MG. No way. I don't blame you.

We had one of those situations years ago with Pia. One of my spies had been trailing someone all night and she witnessed a crime. The person committing it screamed bloody murder because "no one could see her." My spy had described in detail what happened. She couldn't have made it up. The villains co-horts raised so much cain we just dropped the whole rp story. It's not worth the drama.

And that's what you have to be prepared for. When it gets bad, just walk away.

I like Olarius' list. Anything else people might want to add to it?

In regards to enforcement, the Watch has pretty much handled things the way you all have described. If we find any character whose actions are about to get them into trouble, they're whispered OOC to work out the process of the crime and arrest (since as of yet we don't have a community agreed upon system of punishement). If they're decent RPers, some arrangement can be worked out. If it can't, or they later break the deal, usually we just won't RP with them regarding any kind of criminal activity again. That works all right, except that others may still go along with them and then question why the Watch isn't. An explanation of our position typically clears that up though. It seems like pretty much everyone gets fed up with that kind of bad RP at some point.

What?!

You mean my character can't go around Stormwind, leading an army of demons, and throwing exploding babies into orphanages, and expect to get away with it? Also, lich.

Seriously.

If it hasn't been suggested, put something about liches, or people that cart about demons in the city. People in the WoW-verse are magic sensitive, for the most part. Especially races like the Night Elves, Tauren, etc, or any sort of caster or paladin. Demons I could see.. vaguely accepted, perhaps, but I imagine are heavily frowned upon - my warlock character doesn't even publicly call himself a warlock. People think he's a mage, or he refers to himself as simply a 'Magister'. There are reasons warlocks hide away in dark places.

Being a lich'd get you flat murdered, though.

02/19/2012 01:24 PMPosted by Vanyris

Demons I could see.. vaguely accepted, perhaps, but I imagine are heavily frowned upon

I believe it was Metzen himself who said that demons are verboten in Stormwind and other metropolises. (Metropoli? Metro--Oh, forget it.)

I believe it was Metzen himself who said that demons are verboten in Stormwind and other metropolises. (Metropoli? Metro--Oh, forget it.)

Honestly, I could see it.

But could you get people to play along with it?

Not likely. A lot of people take the route of.. 'Oh demons aren't so bad', etc, for whatever reason. They then often back it up with 'And there's nothing you can do about it, because we're the same faction'.

I believe it was Metzen himself who said that demons are verboten in Stormwind and other metropolises. (Metropoli? Metro--Oh, forget it.)

You'd never be able to enforce it. metropolises or metropoleis

(( I like the established list, and I have desired a written set of laws for a while, so this is fantastic news!

I do, though, wonder some things on the subject of contraband.

There are some items I would say may be better suited as being under rule of private judgement.
Demonic items, like Soul Shards, are something are something Warlocks are known to be members of the Alliance, and practices in the arts don't seem like something that should be banned from all the city, but rather, banned from public places (streets, parks), and private locations that would abhor such items (cathedrals), whereas within private or designated areas (homes, armories, study facilities) it would be up to the proprietor to judge.
Real life comparison, for instance, could be alcohol.
I feel such rules might be considerable for other things like poison, explosives, any weaponry, humanoid remains (baby corpses, for instance?)

Though, such a debate can lead to the question of just about any magic or talent.
Are people allowed to have demons walk through the city? (As already discussed above, this would be hell to enforce)
Is it safe to bring trained lions, or wolves, or Devilsaurs into public places?
And (pardons to people like Kaellar) toting a reanimated body, in the form of what may arguably slavery, about the city can be more controversial than demonology, I would think.

With such a note, what of the practice of magics? Magic can be destructive, what rules restrict it? May somebody summon demons, or reanimate the dead in public?
Somebody is bound to make some argument about something sometime.


Aside from subject of contraband, I would ask about jurisdictional barriers. Where does the law stop? Outside of Stormwind? Outside of Elwynn? Off the grounds of any Stormwind-affiliation? Off Alliance grounds?
What if, for instance, one were to violently torture a few men to death outside the city, and were to speak and/or brag about such feats within the Watch's jurisdiction?
Would I be charged for murder, if it were committed in Elwynn? Duskwood? Strangethorn? Silithus?


Just a few points and questions I feel are worth being brought up.
Still though, I love the list, and thankful to see one being erected! ))

Aside from subject of contraband, I would ask about jurisdictional barriers. Where does the law stop? Outside of Stormwind? Outside of Elwynn? Off the grounds of any Stormwind-affiliation? Off Alliance grounds?
What if, for instance, one were to violently torture a few men to death outside the city, and were to speak and/or brag about such feats within the Watch's jurisdiction?
Would I be charged for murder, if it were committed in Elwynn? Duskwood? Strangethorn? Silithus?

The Stormwind Watch considers its jurisdiction to be Stormwind's territory, which would be Stormwind proper, Elwynn, Westfall, Redridge, and Duskwood. So just to clarify, we are only proposing these laws for that area. It's up to the player community if they want to expand them to other parts of the world, although even in that case the Watch wouldn't be enforcing them. We have enough to do as it is. :)

02/21/2012 01:47 AMPosted by Orwyn

The Stormwind Watch considers its jurisdiction to be Stormwind's territory, which would be Stormwind proper, Elwynn, Westfall, Redridge, and Duskwood. So just to clarify, we are only proposing these laws for that area. It's up to the player community if they want to expand them to other parts of the world, although even in that case the Watch wouldn't be enforcing them. We have enough to do as it is. :)

(( Ah, wonderful! Very glad to see a written list of laws, and to just where these apply!
Much thanks, Watch. ))

((Clearly, that time we defiled the altar at the Cathedral of Light was totally warranted...I always knew that Archbishop was not to be trusted, but noooo, no one listened!))

02/17/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Gentyl

Not long ago we had a serial killer loose.

Still on the loose, just not in a populated area.

....for now.....

Just making a quick note that we're having our internal discussion about appropropriate punishments for these crimes and the contraband list, and I'll have something up here for everyone else to discuss in a few days.

Is incest illegal in Stormiwnd? Or no?

...Should I ask why you're asking?

yes

...Should I ask why you're asking?

Part of Rue's story. Fell in love with her cousin, her cousin found out she was his cousin, dumped her, and Dante (Rue's adoptive sister) killed him for dumping her.

...Well then!

Anyway its unlikely they'd care about cousins considering the setting, parent/child would be a no-no, not sure about sibling, probably culturally frowned on but not flat out illegal maybe.

I believe it was Metzen himself who said that demons are verboten in Stormwind and other metropolises. (Metropoli? Metro--Oh, forget it.)

You'd never be able to enforce it. metropolises or metropoleis

((Metropoli, metropolises, metropoleis...hmm...))

((I cast my vote for metropolitamusses. I suggest this, using the obviously proper plural form of hippopotamus (that being hippopotamusses, just like in that Winter's Veil, uh, I mean Christmas carol) as a basis for my argument. It sounds legit to me.))

((Sorry. Couldn't resist.))

incest-The crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.

cousins wouldn't necessarily be illegal, just creepy. however, since they didn't know they were cousins and he is dead, who is going to file charges even if it were illegal?