World of Warcraft®

04/03/2012 07:41 PMPosted by Lito

There's a lot of non-game material to account for in the Warcraft IP universe, in addition to comprehensive questing being less emphasized now in game.

While this may be true, the entire point of roleplay is bringing the fellowship aspect of the game into the story. The combination of story and gameplay are what make World of Warcraft a work of art, and thus it needs to be judged on its own logical universe as that is what your typical player experiences. If they are not taking that their characters, even if liberal night elves, should feel nostalgic and attached to old ways in an emotional vein as a result of the game itself then it's silly to expect them to do otherwise.

To attempt to impose interpretation based on external media, even if in the same intellectual property and by the same author, is silly because of the nature of video games. When you read a book, you are being told a story. When you play a game, you are- in part- writing the story. As such, forcing interpretation based on sources outside of the video game medium is silly because the medium themselves are intrinsically different. Forcing one onto the other ruins the experience.

It's like interpreting Citizen Kane based on William Randolf Hearst's biography.

Edit: ^ That is just absurdly meta, man

04/03/2012 07:55 PMPosted by Bradell

Why not try to stay on the high road here? Avoid getting personal or vaguely-so?

I'd rather just stay on the honest road.

I wasn't quite addressing you there, as the timing would have been nigh-impossible, but the comments that are only personal barbs.

04/03/2012 08:03 PMPosted by Bradell

To be perfectly fair, this is a pretty terrible illustration of your point. Understanding the author's background and experiences is a vital tool in interpreting their works.

William Randolph Hearst is not the director of Citizen Kane.

Also, no it's not.

Edited for unintentional flippant tone. :(

If this were a guide that players are forced to see between creating a Night Elf and being given control of the avatar, I could understand where you're coming from.

Well I now have the gigglies so I couldn't be flippant even if I tried.

If this were a guide that players are forced to see between creating a Night Elf and being given control of the avatar, I could understand where you're coming from.

See the parts where it mentions that even liberal Night Elves have a sense of nostalgia or respect for tradition. That's actually a really deep and far reaching part of a person's character.

Well, to be perfectly fair, the only people that would look at this as fact and not the opinion drawn by the poster are either small minded or Melyria.

Or people new to RP, which is who guides like this are made for. Not so much people who have been at it for some time and already have their opinions on the matter.

I mean, yes, Mely wants to stop those supposed "wrong" night elves who RP more human-e, but this won't do a thing to stop them.

I hope it doesn't. If they're interpreting Night Elves as really humany from the game then it's... you know... the game.

And no, Mely doesn't want to stop the wrong night elves. Mely wants to be pedantic about things Mely knows about a video game.

When the head of the military and the head of the religion are the same person, who was appointed, not elected, theocratic dictatorship sounds just fine. Source? Again? Or are you just brushing over that, too?

Tyrande, now high priestess of Elune and Malfurion's mate, implemented sweeping changes throughout night elf society. She organized a new all-female army, the Sentinels, and decreed that it would be directed by the Sisterhood of Elune. Nobility and sorcery were now considered the relics of a decadent and shameful past.

From the Warcraft Encyclopedia

As Tyrande is the leader of the Sisterhood of Elune (and the Church of Elune), she is leader of both, and technically would be considered a dictator (Though the historical dictionary definition for her is that of a Tyrant. She did basically Usurp the throne from Azshara and all)

However, this history does gloss over a few facts that are rather important. First off, Tyrande became leader of the Night Elves because everyone else bailed on her.

It was originally a joint held position by Malfurion, Sunstrider, Shadowsong, and Tyrande. Malfurion and the druids all but abandoned the Night Elves, and the Priesthood refused to reign them in, which led Jarod to become disenfranchised with the Kaldorei government, and he left. We should all be familiar with Sunstriders tale.

Tyrande rules the Night Elves because she was the only one with a strong enough sense of responsibility and strength of vision to do so. Sunstrider, were he still alive would fit into this boat as well, but they kinda had different ideals.

Malfurion and Jarod, as great as they may seem, kinda just ran away.

Not when they will know directly that they were trolls and only separated because of arcane usage. (Zandalari banned it or something)

It's a moot point right now though because any of this can change.

As mel said, nothing changes. Arcane kicked off the mutation, Elune shaped them. This is pretty much what the Night Elves always believed (just at one point attributing the powers of the Well to Elune).

Is their faith going to color certain aspects? Yeah. I mean, they thought Cenarius was the son of the Moon and the Sun (War of the Ancients, book 1). Facts are going to be mixed in with myth.

As is, it's highly likely that many Night Elves knew they evolved from Night Elves, and it's almost guaranteed that Tyrande did, considering she led the Sentinels policing Ashenvale forest and Hyjal for 10,000 years and Dark Trolls lived in both Ashenvale and Hyjal.

I think it highly likely that the Dark Trolls had their own pantheon of Loa, of which Elune was one of them (and I use Loa as a title, not a power level.). We already know they have multiple gods.

It is really sad but it's the game. :( As any high school english teacher will attest, attempting to shove meaning down people's throats only makes them resent the art.

This in turn results in harm to the medium as a whole and eventually the great artists of each generation would simply rather move on to other medium than try to get people to appreciate their book/music/movie for what it is.

Dragosa, I'll be entirely honest with you -- I'm not clear on what argument you're making here, as I think I read a few distinct things, so I don't understand your expectations.



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Regarding individual variance, isn't that what the entirety of the traditonal/liberal spiel was trying to get at? It was the first topic breached and all. I think it's fair to allow for some awkwardness in expression; I know I spew some odd piles of words around myself.

Honestly, a lot of the opinions-stated-as-fact that riddled the first version have been stripped or toned down. I think it's tons better, and I appreciate the footnotes with references.

Nice job, Melyria. Lot of work here.

Well I'm also never getting my Annual Pass beta invite so there's that.

Regarding individual variance, isn't that what the entirety of the traditonal/liberal spiel was trying to get at? It was the first topic breached and all.

They'd still worship Elune, given the proof of her existance, but may be willing to accept the Light as a valid view on how to live one's life or even compare teachings and see which is better.

There's no reason a Night Elf couldn't worship the Light or a Human worshipping Elune seeing as how religions are power sources in WoW rather than beliefs.

The issue being that those are seen as extreme circumstances, and only evidence of the "normal" xenophobic, anti technology elves being kept to knowledge and held up as what is right, despite it being just as likely to be the individual elves opinion.

I respect Mel (Why I occasionally pop into MG forums and read her posts) but..in this case xenophobia is wrong.

Night Elves have not been xenophobic since the War of the Ancients.

The attack against the Orcs was ordered by Cenarius himself (and NOT Tyrande), AFTER the Night Elves had sent out a scouting force to obtain information on the Orcs. The scouts returned with tales of the first two wars and the Orcs actions.

Further, we know High Elves were actively traveling through Night Elven lands 100 years ago, Satyr live alongside (or at least, in the same areas) Night Elves as long as they cause no issues (as seen several times in the starting zone), and even Naga (since their appearance) are pretty much left alone as long as they don't cause a fuss (mentioned in Darkshore, the Night Elves don't actually engage the Naga until they strike first).

Not to mention the Trolls in Ashenvale and Hyjal, and who knows what else.

Night Elf xenophobia has always been highly overrated.

There's no reason a Night Elf couldn't worship the Light or a Human worshipping Elune seeing as how religions are power sources in WoW rather than beliefs

Seeds of Faith mentioned that unless you really believe in the existence of Elune with all of your heart, and have the will to stand by that belief, you will never have the powers of a priestess.