World of Warcraft®

Taking the discussion here, because it was taking up space in an RP thread.

I would love to see more RP-PvP activity, although I'm pretty atrocious (getting better!) at it. In fact, I like to respond to attacks in Kalimdor (one of the few who does; especially now that I occasionally collide with a random RPer with reason to hate Night Elves). When the other side finally leaves (usually over 6 of my skeletons, or before I can even manage to get there), I like to do a little attack on Krom'gar or other Orcish posts. I try to avoid the quest givers, but it's not always avoidable.

While dying a lot does discourage me quite a lot, I do enjoy good fights with RP involved. While I enjoy it, I don't feel like investing the sort of time and effort to get Conquest gear on my loner character.

..Hey! I think someone mentioned finding you in Astranaar last night :D I mean I wasn't there but, s'what I heard >>))

((More to respond, and since I'm always worried about this to the point of whispering people in contentious Alliance RP, I'll say it here: the people on this realm are awesome, and I love RPing (and fighting) with all of them. I don't want hurt feelings. I tend to go for the throat when I'm passionate about something, but please don't take it personally.

This said, right now I'm at work, and even as fast as I type, sometimes I spend more time responding here than I do working, which isn't good for the reliability of a reoccurring paycheck. ;) That huge wall of text I glurted out in the last thread (and sorry Nynra for hijacking it) was on my lunch break. I'll post more tonight once I'm home.))

Yes, indeed. I have a playmate! (this is an OOC thread, so the brackets are optional if you find them cumbersome)

Playmate? :o and haha, I know, but habit.

Let's say a Horde RP guild all has Wednesday off. They decide to attack at say.. noon, server. They don't tell anyone else. They attack, I'dunno, Menethil, where let's say for a second your character lives. Now they show up with.. ten people. Hypothetical number here.

Now let's say five minutes in there are still alarms. Gentyl gathers the people she can - a whopping two other members of Pia.

They show up and proceed to get to stomped into the ground.

But because this guild stomped the three people who showed up, and a -sizeable- number of NPCs for a good twenty minutes, they declare it a victory! Hooray. Menethil, where your character lives, burns.

Now, do you feel that the Alliance had a fair representation there? Do you feel like you had a strong chance to be /involved/ in that RP PvP event, and that you got to help sway the direction of your character's story?

Or do you feel like some people showed up, killed a bunch of NPCs, and decided it was RP.

Now that's why attacking without cooperation is a poor idea. We have a small community. Frankly, 'surprise' attacks are going to end with you killing a bunch of NPCs, and that's certainly not fun for the Horde. I'd imagine it isn't for you guys, either, as the point of this seems to stir up RPPvP, not RPPvE.

Why is Tuesday, specfically, bad? Because it's the end of an expac. The Horde community is small. We have one RP event. When you attack somewhere on a Tuesday, without informing us, it makes us choose - do we go defend, missing out on the one chance a week the community has a designated night for coming together, or do we stay at clinic. That's basically why.

Is it 100% realistic? No. But WoW isn't realistic - realistically, corpse camping would be a great strategy.

Do we do it?

No. Because it's kills off any progress we've made at making a server-wide, both-faction RP community, discourages RP, and just pisses people off.

I think we can all agree we don't want to do that, so please, let's not. This RPPvP can be /good/ for the server. With a little courtesy to both sides, we can avoid drama, and continue to drum up RP, but if we keep upsetting each other off simply due to a lack of communication for the sake of the element of surprise, we're going to /hurt/ the server's community.

If we work together, we can help build up an impressive server-wide RP. If we disregard the other side, what we've /all/ worked on building together so far is gonna fall apart.

Now that's why attacking without cooperation is a poor idea. We have a small community. Frankly, 'surprise' attacks are going to end with you killing a bunch of NPCs, and that's certainly not fun for the Horde. I'd imagine it isn't for you guys, either, as the point of this seems to stir up RPPvP, not RPPvE.

Why is Tuesday, specfically, bad? Because it's the end of an expac. The Horde community is small. We have one RP event. When you attack somewhere on a Tuesday, without informing us, it makes us choose - do we go defend, missing out on the one chance a week the community has a designated night for coming together, or do we stay at clinic. That's basically why.

I certainly see the point here, but allow me to try and lay out several concerns from the Alliance.

The PvP events that have been organized thus far, I'm sorry to say, are being reported as utter, complete obliteration. The Alliance didn't hold a candle to the more experienced, geared, and tank-spec (ARO!!!!!!!!) players that proceeded to stomp them week after week after week after week. It's one thing to die in PvP, it's another to sign up for a weekly hour of corpse runs.

I myself only attended one of these, since only one really would have made sense to include Cyrus. But what happened the other night in Allianceooc was someone threatening to boycott PvP events unless the Alliance subjected themselves to more pre-determined punishment. The only good that sort of threat does is make people defensive.

Last week a rogue was griefing/interrupting the War Council meeting by sapping players that happened to be flagged, so they apparently felt it more productive to go hit somewhere rather than sit there and be made to look like fools. This was not intended to break up a Horde event.

On a side note, the only really active events on Alliance-side these days are the Troubador Night and the Feathers of Iron tavern. Since the Horde have never been shy of showing up in force to the TN event before, I doubt anyone really considered the repercussions of attacking the Horde during *their* clinic.

I myself only attended one of these, since only one really would have made sense to include Cyrus. But what happened the other night in Allianceooc was someone threatening to boycott PvP events unless the Alliance subjected themselves to more pre-determined punishment.

Last week a rogue was griefing/interrupting the War Council meeting by sapping players that happened to be flagged, so they apparently felt it more productive to go hit somewhere rather than sit there and be made to look like fools. This was not intended to break up a Horde event.

"Boycott" ... mmmmph ... this word is being thrown around a lot, and the meaning, in the context I got from being present at said discussion where said threat was dropped, is getting blown WAY out of proportion. The point that was made was that if Alliance was going to make random attacks on Tuesday during the horde side clinic (the weekly rp event they have) then Alliance could expect NO response from horde side rpers. Defenses were high and the conversation was heated, but defending this or even throwing this word around so much is getting ridiculous. It needs to stop.

The rogue at the War Council meeting WAS NOT GRIEFING and was, in fact, IC.

*grumps and trundles off to find a Suni-sized soap box to stand on*

And Cy - save for the word boycotting, but Ere covered that well -, I honestly have to agree with most everything you said. While I think the rogue was.. a random griefer, I honestly didn't hear about that, it's understandable.

We just would prefer Tuesdays don't become a regular thing - and realize to get a sizeable response from /either/ side, we need it to be a 'regular' thing, or at least have a few days in advance notice.

As for.. numbers/gear/skill level, well. The numbers had been fairly even, till very recently. I think the drop in folks was.. also due to IC reasons, though I could be wrong. As far as I've heard there've been people storming out of the war council, etc. That, unfortunately, can only be helped on an IC basis.

Gear/skill level.. well, that's something that can be worked on, but I don't want to tell anyone what to do with their free time. However, people who want to PvP gear probably will. That's about all I can say.

As for numbers, if they really are VASTLY different, I think we can work together to even them out a bit. Obviously if one side has 15 85s, and one side has.. 10 85s but seven 63s, those seven 63s aren't gonna make a difference.

I'm honestly not sure what to do about that. World PvP is not, and never has been, fair and balanced. We can probably talk a bit, not recruit non-RPers into this, and overall just be courteous in RP and RPPvP, but I don't know how much we can do about that problem.

Maybe some wargames could be set up? But gear still comes into play with that.

(Also Aro is becoming a Monk in mists. Not a tank one, either. Enjoy. :p)

Edit: Oop, not griefing, read Erelyn's above post.

Arot, if you don't want to answer alarms, don't answer them. Pia will continue whether we get stomped or not. We're not going to run to the forums and bemon the fact we got stomped which happens several times a week. I'm also not going to tell pia we can only pvp on planned events. It's like making an appointment to have sex.

I think I am going to refrain from posting about pvp events though. This is rapidly turning into an A attacked B, time to run to the forums and complain.

Heh, Gen, I wasn't trying to say that, at all - I merely used Pia as an example because Pia /always/ shows up to defend.

Though I'd say your sex metaphor could be used better.

Appointments? Maybe not.

Communication? Probably a good idea.

Also, at the base, this issue is far from about A attacked B. After all, I don't think anyone here is discouraging RPPvP - we're trying to make sure it stays lively.

04/04/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Erelyn

"Boycott" ... mmmmph ... this word is being thrown around a lot, and the meaning, in the context I got from being present at said discussion where said threat was dropped, is getting blown WAY out of proportion. The point that was made was that if Alliance was going to make random attacks on Tuesday during the horde side clinic (the weekly rp event they have) then Alliance could expect NO response from horde side rpers.

There was one who initially said she wouldn't be able to attend due to an event and that the response would likely be minimal, true, but another Horde member who was in the channel picked up on it as a boycott. As I said above, that put people on the defensive.

04/04/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Erelyn

The rogue at the War Council meeting WAS NOT GRIEFING and was, in fact, IC.

Then the Horde know who to blame for the Alliance getting riled up enough to roll through Undercity, guns a'blazin'.

04/04/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Çyrus

On a side note, the only really active events on Alliance-side these days are the Troubador Night and the Feathers of Iron tavern. Since the Horde have never been shy of showing up in force to the TN event before, I doubt anyone really considered the repercussions of attacking the Horde during *their* clinic.

Don't kill me Cy but on this...there's also the Clinic on mondays as well, the fact that alliance does and has had fairly regular walk up RP. A thing the horde has always been notoriously lacking in. While this does not defend them showing up to TN in force it also points out that that is not quite so disruptive as dragging people away from the one event that has gone out of its way to try and make sure there's SOME sort of regular horde RP

Hey, i killed you in Howling Fjord on your hunter >_>

The PvP events that have been organized thus far, I'm sorry to say, are being reported as utter, complete obliteration. The Alliance didn't hold a candle to the more experienced, geared, and tank-spec (ARO!!!!!!!!) players that proceeded to stomp them week after week after week after week. It's one thing to die in PvP, it's another to sign up for a weekly hour of corpse runs.

The thing is, we're more than willing to work with you. Hell, you can ask me any time during an attack... I'll tell you exactly how many we have. Maybe we can even work something out to have even numbers. There's nothing wrong with that. You just have to ask.

For people who enjoy RP-PVP, maybe they should work on getting PVP gear. That's exactly what happened with us. You group was larger than ours, and would stomp our face in. We knew we weren't going to get any more numbers, so we started PVPing here and there. Myself, I only do a couple battlegrounds a week... and in three weeks I've gotten a full set of PVP gear. It's not hard to do. Our numbers have grown some since that because we've been actively trying to get our side's RPer involved in both the RP and the PVP part.

If you need help getting people involved, several of us have mentioned trying to drum up some support for you. You just have to ask.

I myself only attended one of these, since only one really would have made sense to include Cyrus. But what happened the other night in Allianceooc was someone threatening to boycott PvP events unless the Alliance subjected themselves to more pre-determined punishment. The only good that sort of threat does is make people defensive.

Here's where you focusing on a word that someone in AllianceOOC said, but we never did. NO ONE said we would be boycotting PVP events. We said we weren't going to show up, and we as Razortalons were not going to acknowledge that they happened, if they're going to happen during Clinic. That's it. I won't mention who, but Alliance individuals started throwing around words like boycott and blacklist without actually reading what was said.

Last week a rogue was griefing/interrupting the War Council meeting by sapping players that happened to be flagged, so they apparently felt it more productive to go hit somewhere rather than sit there and be made to look like fools. This was not intended to break up a Horde event.

No one really had a problem with this, until the point was brought up in AllianceOOC that "Our attack last tuesday was successful! We should attack more while the Horde is preoccupied!" Several of us mentioned that Horde holds Clinic Tuesday nights. It's posted on the forums, which I can link and quote (again) if you need. Even then, people "apologize" and do it anyway. That is what has us upset.

On a side note, the only really active events on Alliance-side these days are the Troubador Night and the Feathers of Iron tavern. Since the Horde have never been shy of showing up in force to the TN event before, I doubt anyone really considered the repercussions of attacking the Horde during *their* clinic.

I can't recall a single attack during your RP evenings; and if it is being done, it's not by those who actively participate in the cross faction RP. Hell, we'll even talk with them and ask them to stop if they're griefing your events; but we can't do anything if we don't know about it. We sometimes show up to events to engage in RP; but as a whole our community doesn't really go on the offensive (other than Modas I suppose). With the AAMS and the advent of RealID convos, the cross faction RP has gone up quite a bit, so some of us have shown up to events in neutral ground to participate.

I'd like to point out, no one is complaining about our events being attacked - no one attacked the clinic. If Ragefang had caused ruckus at the clinic, that's a whole other matter entirely. It's more akin if we waited til the Alliance held their clinic, and then all raided Darnassus while saying we burned it to the ground.

I'd also like to reiterate what Eslyn said. The first few events, we got beat pretty badly. So we geared up and started pvping together, got organized, and increased interest while Alliance was also losing interest, for varying reasons.

I'll address this one once, Eslyn, so there's an understanding (and so we're clear, context is our friend).

After my apology for attacking on a Horde RP event night, I was largely just hanging out in Booty Bay, chatting with people. Next thing we knew, World Defense was repeatedly blowing up on us for an attack at Twilight Shore. Figuring things were on, we headed out to Darkshore to find out what was happening. We also started inviting interested parties from AllianceOOC (few responded).

We were confused to find that Local Defense in Darkshore wasn't going off while World Defense continued to do so. Then we discovered that there are, in fact, two locations in the game called Twilight Shore. The other one is in the Twilight Highlands, on the strand of beach between the Alliance and Horde quest hubs. We headed out there, and discovered a lone Rogue swatting Alliance soldiers; it wasn't someone I'd seen before, and I don't think they were RPing.

While we were out there, since we had taken the time to go out, we swatted a few Horde soldiers on the beached boat there, then moved into the Horde quest hub and started killing NPCs, to have something to do.

I folded it into my RP post on Nynra's thread to keep things consistent for Rage's motivations. It wasn't an intent to apologize for something, then keep doing what was apologized for. It was an unplanned coincidence.

04/04/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Raoul

I'd like to point out, no one is complaining about our events being attacked - no one attacked the clinic. If Ragefang had caused ruckus at the clinic, that's a whole other matter entirely. It's more akin if we waited til the Alliance held their clinic, and then all raided Darnassus while saying we burned it to the ground.

There is a major difference in attacking Orgrimmar and Ironforge.

Horde RPers can almost walk through Ironforge without being noticed. I've seen it happen.

((I'm not really sure how that's relevant, to be honest. Flying mounts make both quite easy to infiltrate. Its also not the point in the slightest at all. Its just bad form to hold an IC event when another IC event is going on, be it PvP related or not. That's what this is about. Especially so when one IC event is saying they have an effect on your lives. That's what this was about.))

Yelling, screaming, whining ... !@#$%ing ... as long as there is communication with the goal to resolve issues, I'm all for it. Harsh or rough communication is better than NO communication.

(hmm .. it didn't pick up my quote -- this was addressed to Cy)

But! ... Getting hung up on word choice (when people are apt to confuse their dictionary meanings any how) and using that as a defense, will accomplish very little. Yes, it was said -- but the *actual* intent was relayed half a dozen times by others from the horde-side pool as the conversation went on. So revisiting this ad nauseum as the crux of the problem is not going to solve *the* problem.

Cyrus, the horde is broken into factions, too. So dancing to that tune is not all that fair, either. ICly retaliating over a single horde infiltrator was an overreaction (and on a par -- I think -- with Rage's character).