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Hello I posted this on World's End Tavern forum and was encouraged to bring it here. I am seeking to form a society of the Shadow and Dark Arts. Not a guild, but a chat channel and a good opportunity to foster rp. I am thinking that a channel would work because it would give those who practice the Dark Arts a way to make friends and create and develop storylines and plots.

So, thoughts and suggestions?

This is link to WET forum. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4927283446#1

I like the idea, and think that it could work out pretty well.
Are you planning this strictly Hordeside, or would some of us frowned-upon Alliance get some shadiness too?

I have warlocks both sides so it could be. I will be on later tonight and create the channel. Do you think we should include anyone who can use Shadow? Maybe anyone who wants to join? I am thinking mainly warlocks, Shadow priests, rogues and DKs.

My greatest fear with this sort of thing is that it might foster a silly behavior that I've seen several times, IC.

People who drag demons around major cities (Orgrimmar and Stormwind, the Undercity is a bit of an exception to this) and extremely publicize that they're warlocks. While it's... somewhat accepted, nowadays, a sort of necessary evil, the Horde is far from pleasant to warlocks. Realistically, lorewise, I don't think demons would be allowed to be dragged around capital cities, save for maybe the Undercity. But even then, with the recent betrayal of Varimathras, I sort of doubt that.

Look at the Ashenvale line - Garrosh puts a price on your head for working with warlocks and demons, and those warlocks and demons had to work in secrecy. Nearly every race in the Horde has been screwed over by demons, they don't take them lightly. I'm sure the same can be said for most Alliance races.

While I like the idea of dark covens - lots of backstabbing, secrets, etc - I think it'd have to be done in a very careful manner, from both the people who run it, and the people who participate.

This is not the sort of thing you'd flaunt, especially not being a warlock, and we -already- see people running around cities, flaunting said powers, without a coven.

Edit: While I think it'd be cool if done well, I fear the potential it has to encourage poor habits, or simply become another 'we're ~evil~' group. Or worse yet, 'we're evil because we're Horde'.

The Horde is a lot more pleasant to warlocks than the Alliance is. The only ones I notice who seem to hide their warlock trainers are the orcs and - to some small degree - the blood elves. The troll and goblin ones are seen "above ground" in Orgrimmar, and Undercity, you got magic wielders of all shapes and sizes roaming the canals. With Alliance, they're super secretive - hiding in caves, in cellars, things of that nature.

Warlock magic was supposed to be banned in the Horde by Thrall, but the warlocks survive - and to some degree, thrive - in the Horde. In the Alliance...it's a brave warlock indeed who flaunts their power in public.

I take it you haven't done Ashenvale.

Basically, no, the Horde is not more pleasant to warlocks, at all.

In no way is Garrosh more tolerant of Warlocks than Thrall - I'd check up on your facts. If anything, he's less accepting of many, especially warlocks. Thrall used warlocks to track the Burning Blade.

Garrosh kills warlocks.

Garrosh also puts a bounty on your head for working with demons.

The Forsaken were backstabbed by Varimathras, and demons MADE the plague, the very reason they were enslaved, something they absolutely /loathe/.

The Orcs were corrupted by the Burning Legion.

The Blood Elves were nearly ruined by their involvement with the Legion.

Tauren have /always/ been wary of unnatural magic, and until recently didn't even have a warlock trainer in their city.

They don't /thrive/ in the Horde, far from it - if anything, the Horde is just as wary of the Alliance, with possibly even more reason to be. Look at how many races it's effected within the Horde, on a massive, personal level.

Also, it wasn't an Orc who summoned an Eredar in an Argent tournament, if I recall correctly.

As for the Goblin/Troll trainers, they added them for game mechanics, I'm fairly certain. Orgrimmar is much smaller in game than it is in lore, and these races needed a trainer too, for mechanic purposes. If there was an underground for those races, you can be damn sure they'd be there, especially in Hellscream's Orgrimmar. Non-Orcs/Tauren are actually banned from a good part of Orgrimmar, as well, as far as the lore is concerned, so they're not in places Orcs would see them, either.

Also, anyone with any class, lore-wise, avoids the slums.

I totally agree it should be kept quiet. I for one abhor the warlocks who parade around anywhere with their demons out. I am saying we need to be quieter about these things, but still have some kind of communication.

I am merely asking for ideas and opinions. If it makes no sense to anyone to try it then it won't happen.

Oh, yeah.

It could certainly be cool. As far as opinions go, like I said, keep it low-key, try not to make it too 'we're ~evil~, oh ho ho'.

I definitely think it /could/ be a good idea, it just has to be done carefully.

I LOVE this idea. I need an 'evil outlet' or whathaveyou.

I take it you haven't done Ashenvale.

Basically, no, the Horde is not more pleasant to warlocks, at all.

In no way is Garrosh more tolerant of Warlocks than Thrall - I'd check up on your facts. If anything, he's less accepting of many, especially warlocks. Thrall used warlocks to track the Burning Blade.

Garrosh kills warlocks.

Garrosh also puts a bounty on your head for working with demons.

The Forsaken were backstabbed by Varimathras, and demons MADE the plague, the very reason they were enslaved, something they absolutely /loathe/.

The Orcs were corrupted by the Burning Legion.

The Blood Elves were nearly ruined by their involvement with the Legion.

Tauren have /always/ been wary of unnatural magic, and until recently didn't even have a warlock trainer in their city.

They don't /thrive/ in the Horde, far from it - if anything, the Horde is just as wary of the Alliance, with possibly even more reason to be. Look at how many races it's effected within the Horde, on a massive, personal level.

Also, it wasn't an Orc who summoned an Eredar in an Argent tournament, if I recall correctly.

As for the Goblin/Troll trainers, they added them for game mechanics, I'm fairly certain. Orgrimmar is much smaller in game than it is in lore, and these races needed a trainer too, for mechanic purposes. If there was an underground for those races, you can be damn sure they'd be there, especially in Hellscream's Orgrimmar. Non-Orcs/Tauren are actually banned from a good part of Orgrimmar, as well, as far as the lore is concerned, so they're not in places Orcs would see them, either.

Also, anyone with any class, lore-wise, avoids the slums.

Everything she says is true! Warlocks are despised by both Horde and Alliance.

Yes, I am aware of that, but there are still "degrees". Warlocks are just as despised (if not more so in some cases) in the Horde as they are in the Alliance, but not nearly as hidden. For an example, I again point to the Forsaken as an example of "abhorred but ignored".

After the Wrathgate, Thrall put a battalion of Kor'kron guards in the Undercity to replace the abominations, and banned the plague that the Apothecary Society spent the better part of a decade trying to perfect. And yet they still make it, they still use it, and they laugh whenever they're told "naughty, naughty". Their ranks are crawling with plague-mixers, shadow priests, warlocks and necromancers, and plus they're in league with the val'kyr.

And Garrosh, other than use a few biting words pointing out how Sylvanas is barely distinguishable from the Lich King, has done nothing. Game mechanics? Or apathy for what goes on an ocean away from his domain? That, in my opinion, is why he reacts so strongly to the warlock magic use in Ashenvale (as you correctly - albeit somewhat rudely - implied, I have not played Horde in Ashenvale...I have not really levelled a Horde since my goblin rogue at Cata launch, and even then, mostly in the East)...it's because Ashenvale is in his backyard, as opposed to Gilneas and Lordaeron, which are "over there".

Again, the Forsaken is one race of the Horde.

One, who if you paid attention to the events of the Wrathgate, are likely not to trust demons or their masters.

As for the Forsaken 'laughing', I'd hardly say they're doing so. Hiding it? Yes. But they aren't cackling manically, twisting their overgrown metaphorical mustaches. They aren't an evil race, they're merely doing what is necessary - and most of that doesn't have to deal with the Burning Legion, at all. And as you pointed out, due to their mistakes, another race has gone so far as to put guards there to personally watch them - Orcs, who again, hate demons. So I really doubt they're spouting 'Oh ho ho, we're so evil, we love the Legion!' in front of any Kor'kron.

Due to the fact that most races of the Horde has been /personally/, in a rather major effected by the Legion (and not just 'They're declaring war on -everyone!-'), I'd say that Warlocks in the Horde would be far from more open than those in the Alliance.

Again, Garrosh tends to just kill users of the Fel when he sees them. Orcs are the backbone of the Horde, and the Warchief is an uncorrupted Orc. He doesn't tolerate such things.

I find it odd you assume the actions taken in Ashenvale are due to Garrosh feeling impotent in regards to the Forsaken. While we're talking about quests and what have you, there/'s an amusing little quest in the Barrens with you giving a Forsaken chick some research. A nearby orb immediately chides you, snatches the papers away, and growls about trusting an undead with any sort of research.

As for the Plague, it is restricted - they've been forced to massively water it down, and have lost all their stores of Blight. They do go about recreating what they can, but its never /quite/ as potent, heh. Otherwise I doubt we would have Worgen as a playable race. They'd all be dead :)

Anyway, yeah. Demons and the Horde. In SW, that is likely to get you in trouble with the guards. In Orgrimmar, it would get you killed >> (UC/SMC I can't imagine killing people on sight for it in the slightest, but its not something they'd encourage you to flaunt.)

Well, which faction-is-more-ebil debate aside, I think you might get some use out of the dotOrg (cenarioncircle.org), once we get the non-guild organization pages up and running. This week or next week, hopefully.

Would this have any connection to the Black Hand Society? Pondering possible alliances...or rivalries. Muhaha.

I like the idea of having an Alliance-side mirror, too. Besides Lluchduu Ocheliad, they seem to be severely lacking in evil villains. As I've heard said, the LO isn't truly evil, they just have some questionable members in their ranks. A pure Shadow order would be nice!

...Back on topic, yes! You should check out the dotOrg site, hehe. It'd be a nice way to actually get it organized some, perhaps even send PMs to varying warlocks you see on the sites, or maybe write up a thread about certain warlocks receiving varying bits of info. Whatever you decide on, hehe

Connecting it to the Black Hand society would probably give it too much of a 'Look at us! We're ~evil~ warlocks!' feel. I'd recommend against it, as to not restrict who all will show up to such events. And, well, guilds that're just 'oh ho ho, we're eeevviiill' aren't really terribly interesting.

But, yes, definitely check out the dotOrg site.

I apologize for derailing your topic, my friends. Got caught up in spirited debate, teehee.

Again, this is not a guild concept but a channel for connecting. I will do it both sides. probably darkartsIC I expect it to be an IC channel to connecting those who are in need of some rp help in doing some nefarious deed or another.

Feel free to rp finding some kind of message or getting one delivered to you from demonic sources, or even observing someone talking and enchanting a shadowgen to use as a communication device.

Everyone who joins does not need to be evil. I prefer to think of Vira as chaotic neutral. She has her own goals, but will help out those she thinks would be willing to help her in return.

Connecting it to the Black Hand society would probably give it too much of a 'Look at us! We're ~evil~ warlocks!' feel. I'd recommend against it, as to not restrict who all will show up to such events. And, well, guilds that're just 'oh ho ho, we're eeevviiill' aren't really terribly interesting.

-_-

Hate to be off topic but is that really necessary? No need to belittle some of the greatest people I've known (not just for their RP ability) and some of the finest weavers of story to boot.

Regardless, to the original poster: Good luck, I've not seen a large gathering of warlocks in some time (not since pre-BC I think). I'm personally not a fan of channel RP (outside of guild chat) but I know plenty are. I always wanted there to be an in game coven of sorts, to function the same way as Cenarion Circle for druids.

05/15/2012 08:25 PMPosted by Heavylager

I prefer to think of Vira as chaotic neutral. She has her own goals, but will help out those she thinks would be willing to help her in return.

That's more like neutral evil. Chaotic neutral characters are more... insane. They are chaotic for the sake of chaos, no distinguishable motivation behind their actions. A good example of chaotic neutral would be the Joker from Dark Knight.

You've mixed up neutral and evil.

Chaotic neutral is honestly the alignment most people are. You and I are probably chaotic neutral.

Chaotic /evil/ is what the Joker is, those that run about causing chaos and all that jazz and murdering folks.