I drop the Flag of Ownership. Does that make me a jerk? D=
The RP vs. PvP Discussion - Come Here
I have talked to you. And actually, a lot of my talk was for what I've seen horde-side lately. I was in CCPVP channel for about a day, but I stopped playing the mage when it became clear I was not going to be able to find an arena team.
07/10/2012 08:35 PMPosted by VanasseI have talked to you. And actually, a lot of my talk was for what I've seen horde-side lately. I was in CCPVP channel for about a day, but I stopped playing the mage when it became clear I was not going to be able to find an arena team.
You can always ask me to play 2's with you, I have no problem team hopping to help people in 2's.
Oh my gosh I am so sorry! :(
How are you? :)
Im good dude, how are you?
OOC:
The opening post grabbed my attention - so I looked at the other thread before reading this one.
And while I do consider myself a role-player, on a role-playing realm. I do the occasion battleground when the mood strikes.. normally when there is a lack of role play. or I go questing, and even do rep grinds until I get more role play.
Reading the posts on cenarion circle forums was not a first time experience for me today.
World pvp is not something I want to do. I have friends on horde toons that I like to play with despite not being able to actually talk other than on real ID.
Having one of my (low level) alts repeatedly attacked and camped (repeatedly) during fire festival. Okay, it destroyed my original character, but I was creative enough to salvage that and turn it into something new without feeling the innate need to simply hit delete.
The only thing is, if this 'world pvp' concept is anything like the fire festival was for me.. I will more than likely be finding a new server to play on. Talking it over on an ooc channel with players that spam posts about 'crops'.. I'd rather talk to trolls on trade chat.
Just keep in mind that the reason most play is to have 'fun', to forget the day, too loose one's self in a game. If I wanted drama, I'd go buy a television.
The opening post grabbed my attention - so I looked at the other thread before reading this one.
And while I do consider myself a role-player, on a role-playing realm. I do the occasion battleground when the mood strikes.. normally when there is a lack of role play. or I go questing, and even do rep grinds until I get more role play.
Reading the posts on cenarion circle forums was not a first time experience for me today.
World pvp is not something I want to do. I have friends on horde toons that I like to play with despite not being able to actually talk other than on real ID.
Having one of my (low level) alts repeatedly attacked and camped (repeatedly) during fire festival. Okay, it destroyed my original character, but I was creative enough to salvage that and turn it into something new without feeling the innate need to simply hit delete.
The only thing is, if this 'world pvp' concept is anything like the fire festival was for me.. I will more than likely be finding a new server to play on. Talking it over on an ooc channel with players that spam posts about 'crops'.. I'd rather talk to trolls on trade chat.
Just keep in mind that the reason most play is to have 'fun', to forget the day, too loose one's self in a game. If I wanted drama, I'd go buy a television.
Edited by Drunhilde on 7/11/2012 1:14 PM PDT
While i don't mean to be sarcastic, is it that hard to deflag?
Clicking on the bonfire at fire festival (putting the bonfire out questing) was enough to flag my toon. And after corpse crawling through high level areas to simply get there and have toons waiting to shoot after you touch the fire. Just how fast and where on the screen to you un-flag before your killed?
Yeah, fire festival is a different beast, as it force flags you to do non-pvp stuff, which is pretty dumb.
I think something needs to be stated here that isn't being mentioned, basically it's the problem in both of the arguments.
Is it wrong to kill someone flagged? No. The common "if they're red they're dead" phrase is all too true. If someone sits there and camps them that is pretty wrong.
However, for the person being camped, if they do not choose to wait to deflag, it is equally their fault if not more their fault because they are provoking PvP combat by insisting to stay flagged, and then want to complain when they get farmed because of their own faults.
My two cents.
Edit: Before someone tries to even attempt to retort, you can unflag while a ghost.
Is it wrong to kill someone flagged? No. The common "if they're red they're dead" phrase is all too true. If someone sits there and camps them that is pretty wrong.
However, for the person being camped, if they do not choose to wait to deflag, it is equally their fault if not more their fault because they are provoking PvP combat by insisting to stay flagged, and then want to complain when they get farmed because of their own faults.
My two cents.
Edit: Before someone tries to even attempt to retort, you can unflag while a ghost.
Edited by Feral on 7/11/2012 2:37 PM PDT
As far as the fire festival goes, you're going into other people's towns and pissing on their celebratory fires. I think auto-flagging is entirely justified there. >>
What I'm talking about is a low level toon (naked since my armor kept getting trashed - level 40 toon) getting attacked and camped by 85 toons. There is nothing justified in that.
The bonfires where outside the towns in reasonably 'safe' areas. If it were not for the achieves and xp I probably would not have bothered.
The bonfires where outside the towns in reasonably 'safe' areas. If it were not for the achieves and xp I probably would not have bothered.
Edited by Drunhilde on 7/11/2012 3:29 PM PDT
07/11/2012 03:24 PMPosted by DrunhildeWhat I'm talking about is a low level toon (naked since my armor kept getting trashed - level 40 toon) getting attacked and camped by 85 toons. There is nothing justified in that.
If I'm not mistaken, being killed in PvP combat causes no durability damage except the direct damage from weapon strikes etc,
Also, if you continuously revived while still being flagged...well...yeah...
So.. since I was mistaken and its perfectly fine for an 85 to kill any low level, non-geared toon that is flagged.
I'll ask again - How do you un-flag a toon that is being attacked?
edit- Now that I think of this for a few, seems I did a lot of continuous reviving.
I'll ask again - How do you un-flag a toon that is being attacked?
edit- Now that I think of this for a few, seems I did a lot of continuous reviving.
Edited by Drunhilde on 7/11/2012 3:54 PM PDT
You make sure you have PvP combat turned off, and you wait in ghost form for your flag to fall off. Simple as that. You don't have to revive until your flag falls off.
Thank you for that bit of information Feral.
I think someone who's flagged doesn't have a lot of reason to complain about being killed by someone from the opposing faction. If you strip away all elements of social contract, "If it's red, it's dead" is a perfectly valid concept.
There have been recent mechanical changes made that should give some of our more zealous PvPers pause, however. Primary among these is that you can now be flagged without actually taking any aggressive action. Say there's an Alliance player who, for some strange reason, happens to be on the road going in front of Tarren Mill (Alliance largely have no reason to be in Hillsbrad at all any longer with the destruction of Southshore, but it is what it is). If they happen to wander too close to the pair of Deathguards who pat the road from Tarren Mill out to the road leading into Alterac, those Deathguards will aggro; the instant they manage to strike the player, that player is flagged. It doesn't matter if the player tries to run to eventually force the guards' tether to yank them back to Tarren Mill, the player has now been flagged.
If I'm coming down the Azshara side of Mt. Hyjal on a flying mount while on my way to Ratchet, if I don't want my altitude very exactly, I can wind up running afoul of Orgrimmar's PvP zone. I'm not intending to fight; if aerial guards come after me or archers take shots at me, I'm inclined to just fly along and get to where I'm going (and then wait for my flag to drop, as the goblins in the Steamwheedle towns take a very dim view of flagged people coming in; I'm not all that popular with the Steamwheedles anyway due to a momentary flirtation with the Bloodsails back in Wrath, and Ratchet still remains the one Steamwheedle town I haven't worked to repair my rep in, so I can't enter anyway; but I'm making a point here).
In that case, a Horde player is in their rights to take shots at me; a Hordie can Deathgrip me down to the ground if they're able, an enterprising Engineer can take flight, DOT me up as their parachute lets them sail down, then repeat as they desire if I don't choose to fight back.
Social contract does enter into this, however, whether people like it or not. "Blueflagging" (attacking a flagged individual from the safety of an unflagged state, insuring the first strike in complete safety, a first strike that often can determine a win or loss in a confrontation, particularly for the stun-happy types) is frowned on here on Cenarion Circle. It's poor sportsmanship, and honestly a cowardly way to attack. Gondorin Ragefang might say "They're Horde, they die", but the guy sitting at the keyboard moving Ragefang around on a map says "What's going on here? Is there a reason to attack?" If the answer is "yes", then at 120 words per minute typing speed, it takes no time at all to type /pvp before attacking; they may only have a split second to see me flag and approach, but for the talented PvPers, that's often all they need.
Another element of social contract is camping. No one in a battleground or Tol Barad complains about being attacked and possibly killed. It's the nature of PvP: there are better players. Maybe even one more kill when they rez just to drive a point home is okay. Past that, you're griefing them. Outside of battlegrounds, players rez at half health (at best), with most defenses/buffs gone. Pet classes like Hunters, Warlocks, Frost Mages and Unholy Death Knights don't have their pets; they have to summon them, and those pets are a significant part of their output capability.
Put simply, there's no reason to camp. Ever. Kill someone and move on. If they attack you, have at it. Hanging out at a spawn point like a graveyard, however, is just crappy. You already beat them.
In general, yes, if one doesn't want to PvP, one should deflag. However, it's always important to realize there are times when one is flagged and doesn't want to be, but doesn't have a choice: having an enemy guard take a swipe at you, zoning out of a just-completed Battleground, and on rare occasions even being tricked into flagging by dueling someone from the opposite faction who flags during the duel; one tick of a DOT, even if you hang back, and you're flagged. Dishonest? Yep. Unavoidable? Yep.
We're an RP realm, who's fortunate to have some players who enjoy PvP to varying degrees. However, poor behavior like camping can't be explained away by "Just deflag in ghost form." It's 5 minutes of time, which is a lot in this game. If someone rezzes and is heading in the other direction, there's little reason to attack again: they're communicating that they don't want to fight anymore.
There have been recent mechanical changes made that should give some of our more zealous PvPers pause, however. Primary among these is that you can now be flagged without actually taking any aggressive action. Say there's an Alliance player who, for some strange reason, happens to be on the road going in front of Tarren Mill (Alliance largely have no reason to be in Hillsbrad at all any longer with the destruction of Southshore, but it is what it is). If they happen to wander too close to the pair of Deathguards who pat the road from Tarren Mill out to the road leading into Alterac, those Deathguards will aggro; the instant they manage to strike the player, that player is flagged. It doesn't matter if the player tries to run to eventually force the guards' tether to yank them back to Tarren Mill, the player has now been flagged.
If I'm coming down the Azshara side of Mt. Hyjal on a flying mount while on my way to Ratchet, if I don't want my altitude very exactly, I can wind up running afoul of Orgrimmar's PvP zone. I'm not intending to fight; if aerial guards come after me or archers take shots at me, I'm inclined to just fly along and get to where I'm going (and then wait for my flag to drop, as the goblins in the Steamwheedle towns take a very dim view of flagged people coming in; I'm not all that popular with the Steamwheedles anyway due to a momentary flirtation with the Bloodsails back in Wrath, and Ratchet still remains the one Steamwheedle town I haven't worked to repair my rep in, so I can't enter anyway; but I'm making a point here).
In that case, a Horde player is in their rights to take shots at me; a Hordie can Deathgrip me down to the ground if they're able, an enterprising Engineer can take flight, DOT me up as their parachute lets them sail down, then repeat as they desire if I don't choose to fight back.
Social contract does enter into this, however, whether people like it or not. "Blueflagging" (attacking a flagged individual from the safety of an unflagged state, insuring the first strike in complete safety, a first strike that often can determine a win or loss in a confrontation, particularly for the stun-happy types) is frowned on here on Cenarion Circle. It's poor sportsmanship, and honestly a cowardly way to attack. Gondorin Ragefang might say "They're Horde, they die", but the guy sitting at the keyboard moving Ragefang around on a map says "What's going on here? Is there a reason to attack?" If the answer is "yes", then at 120 words per minute typing speed, it takes no time at all to type /pvp before attacking; they may only have a split second to see me flag and approach, but for the talented PvPers, that's often all they need.
Another element of social contract is camping. No one in a battleground or Tol Barad complains about being attacked and possibly killed. It's the nature of PvP: there are better players. Maybe even one more kill when they rez just to drive a point home is okay. Past that, you're griefing them. Outside of battlegrounds, players rez at half health (at best), with most defenses/buffs gone. Pet classes like Hunters, Warlocks, Frost Mages and Unholy Death Knights don't have their pets; they have to summon them, and those pets are a significant part of their output capability.
Put simply, there's no reason to camp. Ever. Kill someone and move on. If they attack you, have at it. Hanging out at a spawn point like a graveyard, however, is just crappy. You already beat them.
In general, yes, if one doesn't want to PvP, one should deflag. However, it's always important to realize there are times when one is flagged and doesn't want to be, but doesn't have a choice: having an enemy guard take a swipe at you, zoning out of a just-completed Battleground, and on rare occasions even being tricked into flagging by dueling someone from the opposite faction who flags during the duel; one tick of a DOT, even if you hang back, and you're flagged. Dishonest? Yep. Unavoidable? Yep.
We're an RP realm, who's fortunate to have some players who enjoy PvP to varying degrees. However, poor behavior like camping can't be explained away by "Just deflag in ghost form." It's 5 minutes of time, which is a lot in this game. If someone rezzes and is heading in the other direction, there's little reason to attack again: they're communicating that they don't want to fight anymore.
1. If you flag for PvP, be it willingly or not, you're fair game regardless of circumstances.
2. If you are flagged for PvP at a RP event (focusing on cross faction interaction), you're still fair game. Being polite to others is certainly something to exercise though (especially if you are a part of the RP community). That being said if you are not someone who RPs and go to RP events to PvP people (grief or what have you), you're still fair game. Kill the person, ignore them, report them, etc. Whatever makes you happy. Deal with it and move on.
3. If you're of the same faction and there is friction with RP and PvP (players of one type or the other), then use the ignore and report features and move along.
These problems are nothing new. If you haven't learned to deal with it by now, then
2. If you are flagged for PvP at a RP event (focusing on cross faction interaction), you're still fair game. Being polite to others is certainly something to exercise though (especially if you are a part of the RP community). That being said if you are not someone who RPs and go to RP events to PvP people (grief or what have you), you're still fair game. Kill the person, ignore them, report them, etc. Whatever makes you happy. Deal with it and move on.
3. If you're of the same faction and there is friction with RP and PvP (players of one type or the other), then use the ignore and report features and move along.
These problems are nothing new. If you haven't learned to deal with it by now, then
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