07/24/2012 01:38 PMPosted by TaynnaI'm pretty sure I wouldn't be alone, seeing as I'm a healer and all.
So. If you bring a friend, and I bring a friend.
I still think I can quite simply get you. Before you get me.
Setting Our Hearths in Org
So. If you bring a friend, and I bring a friend.
I still think I can quite simply get you. Before you get me.
07/24/2012 09:52 AMPosted by TaynnaIf the horde don't like whats being done to their cities and leaders, transfer to alliance or a new realm
Sure. Then CC will get removed and you'll be force transferred to another realm.
^ That's how your statement looks.
07/24/2012 12:13 PMPosted by AvarenceOh god we raided a capital city for a couple hours and we are a-hole :[
It's the fact that you've been doing so every day for the past week.
07/24/2012 01:32 PMPosted by Taynnaalso, my gear isn't that bad, the hell are you talking about?
1 empty glyph slot
8 unenchanted items
Missing Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
Engineering: 2 missing tinkers
^ There's your problem.
Let me reiterate: the issue some in this thread have isn't that PvP is happening, it's the attitudes being displayed afterwards that are causing the problem.
^ This. I'm all for world pvp. It's fun at times. But steamrolling Org because of faction imbalance, then coming on the realm forums and acting like you own the world = Pretty childish and pathetic.
If you're trying to encourage Horde to participate in world PVP, this isn't the way to do so.
If horde don't wanna die, don't flag up :/
I think I heard this explanation from certain hordies in an earlier thread ........
I think I heard this explanation from certain hordies in an earlier thread ........
07/24/2012 01:48 PMPosted by TitanhoofIf the horde don't like whats being done to their cities and leaders, transfer to alliance or a new realm
Sure. Then CC will get removed and you'll be force transferred to another realm.
^ That's how your statement looks.Oh god we raided a capital city for a couple hours and we are a-hole :[
It's the fact that you've been doing so every day for the past week.also, my gear isn't that bad, the hell are you talking about?
1 empty glyph slot
8 unenchanted items
Missing Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
Engineering: 2 missing tinkers
^ There's your problem.Let me reiterate: the issue some in this thread have isn't that PvP is happening, it's the attitudes being displayed afterwards that are causing the problem.
^ This. I'm all for world pvp. It's fun at times. But steamrolling Org because of faction imbalance, then coming on the realm forums and acting like you own the world = Pretty childish and pathetic.
If you're trying to encourage Horde to participate in world PVP, this isn't the way to do so.
Oh yesm I'm aware of the gems and enchants.
I rarely play this toon, or at all. So I don't really care. Someone just seems to think I think I'm great or something like that because I enjoy PVP.
Let me reiterate: the issue some in this thread have isn't that PvP is happening, it's the attitudes being displayed afterwards that are causing the problem.
Ignore. Report. Move on.
Problem solved.
Also, the issue being talked about as far as wanting more PvP (via Horde hitting cities etc) is actually small. The main issue right now that MANY have (including many RPers on the Alliance side) is that the PvP being done in the For The Alliances is "griefing" or "unnecessary".
Take Yotingo's post for example. Apparently, from his perspective, the FTAs is not getting the intended reaction; however, what I've been seeing is from doing this numerous times is Horde getting a lot of people together to defend.
You can also refer to Imperon's guild website too for another example about the views being expressed concerning the World PvP as of late.
If I wanted to follow the train of thought that people like Yotingo have, then I'd conduct "War Councils" like you have. That, sadly, will NOT accomplish what it is that the majority of the Alliance is seeking.
You're right, we can just "report and move on", or we can open a dialogue to reach some understanding. It'll work with some, not with others.
I just did refer to Ocheliad's website, and found Imperon's latest posting there to be informative, and quite agreeable from my perspective. I'm in the same boat as he is: I would have no issue at all with helping people get the FTA achievement; I got mine in Wrath, and it was fun (and on a much more populated server than CC currently is, translating into a much more difficult time actually getting the city leaders down; don't get me started on the issues we had downing Cairne...).
But I'm not particularly inclined to help when it leads to the kind of behavior I'm seeing from some, both in the game and now on our realm's forum. Put simply, a variety of /spit and /rude emotes in the game serves little purpose other than the aggrandizement of the ones doing it. It amounts to emote-based tea-bagging. It crosses the line from respectful gaming where someone is a gracious winner (or loser) and enters into the realm of pointless Nelson-style "HA-HA!" play. There's a reason the Nelson character resonates so well with those who have watched The Simpsons: he's a bully who became a stereotype because the behavior was common enough to shore up the stereotype.
The War Council failed for two primary reasons: I created a character whose personality was so extreme that it wound up galvanizing the RP community (IC, at least) to such a degree that we didn't have much in the way of participation in the actual RP-PvP events, and because the numbers of Horde who were inclined to respond (for many reasons Arjah has noted) were small enough that it just wasn't fun. I'll own my own failure there: it's why I've done some adjustments to Rage's personality and even altered the fundamental concept of my RP guild. This said, the PvP was a purely RP-motivated issue, not PvP for PvP's sake. Nothing wrong with that approach, but it should come as little surprise that such a pursuit is either destined to failure, or merely destined to ruffle feathers, on a non-PvP realm.
I know you're given to hyperbole at times, which is fine; it's how you roll. I don't know if you can reliably point to the "majority" of the Alliance on our realm wanting a PvP experience rife with rude behavior; perhaps they do, but I personally haven't seen it.
What I have seen from the RP community is a strong willingness to take part in PvP as long as it doesn't become disrespectful. Dating all the way back to the time I was in Modas in Burning Crusade, there's been a rule against blueflagging. From the time I returned to Cenarion Circle shortly before Cataclysm launched, the rules many Alliance RPers have followed have been "Don't use /rude or /spit or other disrespectful emotes" and "don't corpse camp". Those rules are in place for a good reason: it lets people who lost rub their heads and say "Good fight" and be excited about doing it again instead of picking up their corpse and hoping they can mount up and depart before an overzealous player ganks them at low health and proceeds to use any and all available methods to show that player just how "badly" they were beaten, as though that mattered. The former approach leads to more participation.
As has been amply demonstrated recently, the latter approach leads to less. The last response the Alliance players attacking Orgrimmar should ever want is "They'll get bored and leave eventually."
I'll reiterate: the problem isn't with PvP. It's with the behavior evidenced by some who participate in it.
Edited by Ragefang on 7/24/2012 2:03 PM PDT
^ This. I'm all for world pvp. It's fun at times. But steamrolling Org because of faction imbalance, then coming on the realm forums and acting like you own the world = Pretty childish and pathetic.
If you're trying to encourage Horde to participate in world PVP, this isn't the way to do so.
I wasn't aware that one group of 40 Alliance fighting the Horde's raid boss of a leader Garrosh, as well as the guards that spawn and any player that defends, in the middle of the Horde's main city counted as a number imbalance in favor of the Alliance.
Seems to me the Horde does need my help organizing. Shall I faction transfer?
His hat has a face.
I'll reiterate: the problem isn't with PvP. It's with the behavior evidenced by some who participate in it.
I'll try and keep this short and sweet.
Speaking from the side that has actually been involved, numerous times, in the World PvP being conducted as of late, it is a great success. Horde to defend. They do have numbers. The only thing they lack is organization.
Speaking from the experience that has come along with conducting these raids, it is safe to say that after putting together 6+ different FTAs and downing Garrosh more than 10 times, it is safe to say that a majority of the Alliance is glad to see what is happening. That's speaking for many individuals though. That doesn't speak for people who answer to another leader or ride under another flag (refer to Imperon or yourself in this case).
All that being said, I have two things more to cover for you.
First, if I wanted to run a RPPvP event where it would take a lot of time to plan and see who would actually show up only to have some unforeseen problem arise due to a lack of communication, then I would do that; however, I would rather not waste my time with that. I find what has been happening as of late to be far more productive.
Here is an example too: The last RPPvP event out in the World was hosted by Modas of Horde. Problem with the event was that a lack of communication on their part saw an Alliance turnout higher than the numbers they had for the event. What ended up happening was the Modas didn't mention to the Alliance participating that they were cancelling the event and just left those there ready to participate high and dry. Seems to me both sides are capable of being disrespectful, wouldn't you agree?
That example, of my own personal experience, only serves to underscore my point that it takes way too much time. There's another example, too, with your War Council events where Horde (some RP guilds mostly I believe) declined to participate because of the event falling on a day when they did other RP. To each their own though.
Second, about the attitudes yet again. Seeing as I already know what the problem is (as indicated by Horde that whisper me or posts like Imperon's on his guild forum), it isn't the attitudes overall. The issue is that people are not doing what they would otherwise like.
If it was as simple as just a bad attitude, then people would ignore like like RPers would ignore a griefer that comes in and runs around screaming, "lolrp." You are right that Imperon wrote a good post Rage. It fully shows that the issue extends far beyond the attitudes/behaviors that you mention. It falls into the realm of people not conducting PvP in a manner that people like Imperon would like.
07/24/2012 02:16 PMPosted by ClandestineI'll pay you to stay where you are. Sir.
How much? Because I may transfer soon to obtain a heroic gurth.
Good lord Kod get over youself.
A) The majority of the time you raid org i /who 85 orgrimmar and theres about 40 when it starts. A few log on their mains, about 5-6 form a raid, usualy with 0 healers, with a douzen 85s and non-85s fighting outside of a raid, while most are AFK or just dont care. A maximum of 4-5 pvpers are in there, and im not talking about 4-5 2200 of course, we rarely have that many online simultaneously even at peek time, and the rest are 100k health undergeared players or pve players. Think is even remotely possible to heal this many outside of a raid? A 40 man group will have NO problem whatsoever dealing with that kind of resistance, inclusing the boss and the gaurds. Thats the situation for the vast majority of your raids. Inviting the people outside of the raid you say? Get people to spam their guilds you say? People are already in groups or dont wanna join it, and its already too late at that point for people to stop what their doing and join the fight.
B) When i happen to be online or someone else who wants org to be defended is aware that alliance is going to attack, and we do try to form a defense group for it, the maximum of in-raid defenders we ever managed to get was about 15 people. Not much you say? Yep, you are correct. Out of the 100ish 85s online that have access to trade chat at that moment, plus my guild, 15 is about the maximum we can gather that wants to defend it. Some raid, some are afk, most done give a !@#$. Who am i to force anyone? They can do w/e they like. The truth is : for about 99% of your raids (yes i know im making stats up but its about right ^^) we simply do not have enough players who give a %^-* to defend against a 40 man group with healers and all. We just dont.
Now dont get me wrong, im not !@#$%ing about those raids, i enjoy them for the most part, as i really do like world pvp ^^. However, too many of you guys seems to give yourselves a lil too much credit for these raids. Its beyond me that so many in these forums dont seem to understand that the faction outnumbering the other 5 to 1, especially at a time where both faction arent very populated (end of the xpac, duh ^^) have an INSANE advantage for things that are essencially a number fight. Hoping Mop will fix it a little, that'd be amazing.
(Heres where the nice guy in me goes to hide for a sec)
The day we'll want a paladin who cant rebuke if his life depended on it, who is most likely the player who's wings are the easyest to purge // dispell that i have ever seen, who's damage is so ridiculous i usualy just ignore it and heal other players, who never dodged a single one of my fears in the numerous encounters we had over the years (yes melee can do that), who cannot break 2k after playing such a ridiculously big amount of arenas, and who pretty much gave up on this xpac's competitive pvp due to his complete lack of progress, and who thinks himself almighty on top of all the above... Well that is the day kurrs will wear a pointy purple hat.
To all the other allies, keep the raids goig they're pretty fun. All the reports the crying hordes will do are useless anyway, as FTA is absolutly valid and legal. Come outside org and stay unflag for some duels, it was a blast the other day ^^ Good duels Wubkin, and that shadow priest who's name i forgot.. Was darn fun!
A) The majority of the time you raid org i /who 85 orgrimmar and theres about 40 when it starts. A few log on their mains, about 5-6 form a raid, usualy with 0 healers, with a douzen 85s and non-85s fighting outside of a raid, while most are AFK or just dont care. A maximum of 4-5 pvpers are in there, and im not talking about 4-5 2200 of course, we rarely have that many online simultaneously even at peek time, and the rest are 100k health undergeared players or pve players. Think is even remotely possible to heal this many outside of a raid? A 40 man group will have NO problem whatsoever dealing with that kind of resistance, inclusing the boss and the gaurds. Thats the situation for the vast majority of your raids. Inviting the people outside of the raid you say? Get people to spam their guilds you say? People are already in groups or dont wanna join it, and its already too late at that point for people to stop what their doing and join the fight.
B) When i happen to be online or someone else who wants org to be defended is aware that alliance is going to attack, and we do try to form a defense group for it, the maximum of in-raid defenders we ever managed to get was about 15 people. Not much you say? Yep, you are correct. Out of the 100ish 85s online that have access to trade chat at that moment, plus my guild, 15 is about the maximum we can gather that wants to defend it. Some raid, some are afk, most done give a !@#$. Who am i to force anyone? They can do w/e they like. The truth is : for about 99% of your raids (yes i know im making stats up but its about right ^^) we simply do not have enough players who give a %^-* to defend against a 40 man group with healers and all. We just dont.
Now dont get me wrong, im not !@#$%ing about those raids, i enjoy them for the most part, as i really do like world pvp ^^. However, too many of you guys seems to give yourselves a lil too much credit for these raids. Its beyond me that so many in these forums dont seem to understand that the faction outnumbering the other 5 to 1, especially at a time where both faction arent very populated (end of the xpac, duh ^^) have an INSANE advantage for things that are essencially a number fight. Hoping Mop will fix it a little, that'd be amazing.
(Heres where the nice guy in me goes to hide for a sec)
The day we'll want a paladin who cant rebuke if his life depended on it, who is most likely the player who's wings are the easyest to purge // dispell that i have ever seen, who's damage is so ridiculous i usualy just ignore it and heal other players, who never dodged a single one of my fears in the numerous encounters we had over the years (yes melee can do that), who cannot break 2k after playing such a ridiculously big amount of arenas, and who pretty much gave up on this xpac's competitive pvp due to his complete lack of progress, and who thinks himself almighty on top of all the above... Well that is the day kurrs will wear a pointy purple hat.
To all the other allies, keep the raids goig they're pretty fun. All the reports the crying hordes will do are useless anyway, as FTA is absolutly valid and legal. Come outside org and stay unflag for some duels, it was a blast the other day ^^ Good duels Wubkin, and that shadow priest who's name i forgot.. Was darn fun!
07/24/2012 02:41 PMPosted by PacifikaWell that is the day kurrs will wear a pointy purple hat.
Better find him a pointy purple hat then. 100k gold for a heroic gurth is being considered by some on both Horde and Ally. I may very well be talking in Horde trade chat by the end of the week if not sooner.
And no Clandestine. If anything it isn't enough.
07/24/2012 02:41 PMPosted by Pacifikaand that shadow priest who's name i forgot.. Was darn fun!
Oh you must mean the one you kited into guards when you started losing,he was wondershozen or something of that nature.
And no Clandestine. If anything it isn't enough.
6g and we've got a deal.
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