World of Warcraft®

From the National Association of School Psychologists Position Paper

The following types of bullying are most often seen among children and adolescents:

* Verbal - including name-calling; insults; making racist, sexist, or homophobic jokes, remarks or teasing; using sexually suggestive or abusive language; threats of violance; and offensive remarks. This is the most common for of bullying.

((SATIRE IS WRONG AND YOU SHOULD FEEEEEEEEEEEL BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

Though on that note I feel for the gnomes that find it overdone and annoying. I'd say they probably have it the toughest out of all races on being taken seriously, as even half the people that make a gnome alt just make it.... so cutesy silly omg guys. I'd rp with you guys seriously! If, er, we came across each other in a cross-faction manner that let us RP.

..But as to actually getting offended over the (TRIGGER WORD WARNING) cannibalism jokes, I harken back to SATIRE IS WRONG AND YOU SHOULD FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

09/05/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Raoul

Though on that note I feel for the gnomes that find it overdone and annoying. I'd say they probably have it the toughest out of all races on being taken seriously, as even half the people that make a gnome alt just make it.... so cutesy silly omg guys.

On this I quite agree...and get it beaten into my head by Tim quite often <3. On a complete side track...Tim and Derscha are epic examples of Gnomes who go above and beyond /nods sagely

on into the modern era with comedians like Daniel Tosh, who was recently taken to task for making off-color jokes about "forced intimacy" (so we can avoid the language filter on the forums here).

What does bother me, however, is an attempt to stop the humor to begin with.))

Okay, I can see what side of the toast you butter. And by that I mean if you really feel that comedians that make violent sexual assault jokes/threats at their audience members, especially as men, as comedy that needs to be retained, I can see why mere annoyance also whooshes over your head.

God forbid we stop making terrible jokes that make people feel bad or uncomfortable, comedy is way more precious than how others feel! Especially when we're not ever really affected by the power or emotional impact of said jokes!

PS: Making jokes about people being offended by stuff or trigger warnings is also legit poop-poopy behaviour as well. But whatever.

((Aislinana, at the end of the day, I support freedom of speech. I don't agree with all of it; I'm not personally going to make jokes about sexual assault, for example.

But the thing about freedom of speech is this: it's either there for everyone, or it isn't there for anyone.

I don't know your personal circumstances, or even if there are personal circumstances for you that directly relate to this, but I can't help feeling from the nature of your post that you're attempting in some fashion to use guilt to get people to behave as you want them to behave. Put quite simply, I don't play that game. I never have, I never will. It's nothing more than rank manipulation. I'll resist it at every turn.

It's acceptable to me that you don't like some forms of humor; that's your choice. Your limitations, however, are not valid to limit others. Express your discontent, that's cool: we can have a sensible dialogue about this if you want to discuss it sensibly. I don't have an issue with someone disagreeing with me.

But yeah, as dismissive as it sounds, I think you're taking this too seriously, and might need to step back a bit and gain some perspective.))

Do you seriously believe that you have freedom of speech rights here in the forums of in the game? Perhaps you should read the contract you agreed to. You have no such rights here. Maybe you should read the Forums Code of Conduct!

((That's true, our freedom of speech here is indeed limited by the forum code of conduct. But I'll wager that code of conduct doesn't say a damn thing about making jokes about eating gnomes.

Hell, I find it eyeroll worthy at the best of times, and would rather kiss a goblin than be caught making such jokes (though I'm not above punting jokes), but I'm not gonna condemn the people who DO find it funny.))

It does however say the following "Insultingly refer to other characters, players, Blizzard employees, or groups of people." And of course it would be impossible to list every single thing that is not appropriate. In the end, it is Blizzard and Blizzard alone that decides. But again you contractually agreed to behave in a certain way and therefore can't justify what you say as being covered by free speech.

((Raimmy, you're reaching on this one, coming dangerously close to setting up a straw man. It has a tangential application in a broad sense, but in this specific instance, attempting to limit jokes about a fictitious race's consumption because it makes a particular player uncomfortable in a broad offline sense is asinine. More to the point, however, I brought up the free speech issue solely to note that my resistance to Aislinana's attempts to curb a comedic interlude is based in a broader concept of not wanting to be told what I can and can't say.

If you feel that the original post, or anything I or anyone else have said subsequently in this thread, is in violation of the Terms of Use, I strongly encourage you to make use of the Report feature so those in actual authority can examine what's happening and make a determination. Otherwise, you honestly don't have ground to stand on in this instance.))

I take offense that you claim a Freedom of Speech right to say anything that you want to say here and that is clearly not true. You have no such right. I am just pointing out that you signed a contract, by hitting the I accept button, and you therefore must follow the rules set out in that contract. It is interesting that you state that offending one person is not a violation of the Forums Code of Conduct. That is not for you to decide. Blizzard is the one that makes that determination. They make the rules and we follow them. That is what the contract says. Blizzard tells you what you can and can't say. It is their game and their rules.

((Have you heard the phrase "Can't see the forest for the trees", Raimmy? It's typically used when someone is getting bogged down in the details. I think that's what you're doing here, and you're missing the issue entirely while you try to beat it into my head that I can't "say whatever I want". I've never said I (or anyone else) could.

But that isn't what's actually being discussed here, and to be honest you're just trying to hijack the thread to grind your own axe. That's fine: make a separate thread about it.

In the meantime, unless you're actually a Blizzard representative, you have zero place telling anyone in this thread or any other what rights they do or don't have. I again note: if you take offense at something that's been said, use the report feature. That's what it's there for. Then you can let the authority you're trying so desperately to appeal to make the decision for you, and you no longer have to worry about it.))

In the meantime, of course, you could always guest star on the cooking show. We're looking for diversity of, errr... "participants".

'Cause gnomes is tasty.

You made a sweeping statement about your Freedom of Speech rights. You were wrong. I have the right to post here as much as you do. As far as axe grinding, I use daggers!

((Never said you didn't have a right to post here, merely that you're hijacking the thread to argue about an entirely separate issue. I welcome reasonable discussion, even if it disagrees with me! Did you have something to say about the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of joking about gnome consumption?))

So I was unclear... are you, or are you not, going to guest on the cooking show? I can guarantee it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience!

*salivates*

I understand that people of all ages play this game. I understand that things that may be funny to one age group may not be to another.

"We can have a conversation sensibly/you need to step back and gain some perspective" is a giant red flag for "You're being too emotional, can you come back when you're as uninvolved and unaffected by this as I am, you're reminding me that I might have to think about what I say."

((Pop Psychology 101 is down the hall, Ais. Though I suppose I should applaud you for putting words in my mouth on top of quoting what I'd actually said. The government might like a word with you about employment opportunities if your apparent telepathy is real. ;)

Let me provide you with a simple statement here:

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I shall never live for the sake of another man, nor ask him to live for mine." It was a quote from John Galt in "Atlas Shrugged", and amongst other things it indicates that the attempt to use guilt to direct the actions of others only works if they acknowledge your right to attempt enforcement of a method of thinking or feeling on them in the first place.

I don't.

You've a right to feel how you want about the issue. Your rights end when you use your personal feelings as a hammer against others to get them to behave as you wish them to.))

"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life - for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them." Laura Teresa Marquez

Just a couple of points. First I think that now we can all agree that nobody has a freedom of speech right to say whatever they want in WoW or on the forums. We all signed a contract with Blizzard Entertainment Inc. to abide by their rules while in their game. Now I see that somebody now feels that they have the right to control other players rights in the game. I want to get the quote correct "Your rights end when you use your personal feelings..." Now my question is what in the contract with Blizzard Entertainment Inc. gives you the right to tell other player where their rights end? I was unable to find that clause. Or perhaps there is another constitutional or bill of rights clause that gives you that right. Please let me know what clause gives you that right. I would love to review it!

((Raimmy, the discussion isn't solely about freedom of speech, no matter how much you want to make it so. If that's what you want to discuss, by all means, make a separate thread about it. It isn't even about whether or not the game's rules are being abided by; if they aren't, a simple report to those in charge of the forums can alleviate the problem.

You want to discuss whether it's appropriate to make jokes about eating gnomes? You want to discuss whether someone being upset about those jokes is in an authoritative, unassailable position to keep such jokes from being made? This is your thread!))

((My two cents))

((Raimmy, you're arguing the wrong topic in the wrong thread. This whole thing has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it was a Non-canon, in-character JOKE.))

((Ragefang, for light's sake, quit arguing back, you're only fueling the fire!))

((*whacks channel* BE NICE))