I am not the one that brought up freedom of speech right to begin with. I just pointed out that they did not apply because of the terms and conditions of the contract signed with Blizzard Entertainment Inc. I have read the contract and I certainly have the right to post here.
Gnomish Recipes!
((You've got the right, certainly; whether it's the optimal or intended place to argue freedom of speech issues is another thing entirely. In this case, you took a particular part of a statement, extracontextualized it, then started trying to build on argument on something related in at best a tangential fashion.
In short, you constructed the logical fallacy called a "straw man argument". If that was your goal, congratulations for reaching it!
The discussion here is, at its core, about whether one should be making jokes about gnome consumption, whether someone taking offense at those jokes should be trying to keep them from happening again, and whether such an approach is viable. If you'd like to contribute in those fashions, by all means, you're very invited to!
But if all you want to do is argue 1st amendment issues, you're probably best served making a separate thread, either here or over on one of the off-topic forums.))
In short, you constructed the logical fallacy called a "straw man argument". If that was your goal, congratulations for reaching it!
The discussion here is, at its core, about whether one should be making jokes about gnome consumption, whether someone taking offense at those jokes should be trying to keep them from happening again, and whether such an approach is viable. If you'd like to contribute in those fashions, by all means, you're very invited to!
But if all you want to do is argue 1st amendment issues, you're probably best served making a separate thread, either here or over on one of the off-topic forums.))
((Then it's good no one's attempting to bully you! Unless, of course, you feel being asked to stay on topic is "being bullied". In that case, I'm afraid I can't help you.
Yes, I pulled out the freedom of speech defense... in defense of comedy still being appropriate even when some are offended by it. I also pulled it out in reference to stopping someone from using their personal boundaries as a limitation on others. That's as far as it went. The discussion itself was never about freedom of speech, which I'm sure if you took the time to re-read the thread you might learn.
Using emotionally-charged social "hot buttons" like bullying is only pulling out the victimization mentality, which serves no purpose unless you're attempting simple manipulation of others to reach your own goal instead of using rationale to convince others of the rightness of your position. You aren't being victimized, you aren't being bullied, you are being encouraged to stay on topic.))
You're invited, Raimmy, to Worgen vs. Food! We have a spot prepared just for you!
Yes, I pulled out the freedom of speech defense... in defense of comedy still being appropriate even when some are offended by it. I also pulled it out in reference to stopping someone from using their personal boundaries as a limitation on others. That's as far as it went. The discussion itself was never about freedom of speech, which I'm sure if you took the time to re-read the thread you might learn.
Using emotionally-charged social "hot buttons" like bullying is only pulling out the victimization mentality, which serves no purpose unless you're attempting simple manipulation of others to reach your own goal instead of using rationale to convince others of the rightness of your position. You aren't being victimized, you aren't being bullied, you are being encouraged to stay on topic.))
You're invited, Raimmy, to Worgen vs. Food! We have a spot prepared just for you!
((If we could get back to the actual issue at hand, this is my own opinion and I just feel like putting it out there. I don't really speak for anyone else nor do I feel like I should. However, it does get kind of annoying when I am trying to RP on Ettin or Maethi and all I see in Allianceooc is someone eating, killing, ripping, punting, etc. a gnome. It really does make want to race change... However, I don't really care too much about the jokes, its just that they do seem to happen all the time. I've been playing this game since vanilla and I still remember random people running up to me saying random gnome jokes... Glad that has died down for me but the occasional joke doesn't bug me, though it does when I see it almost every time I log in.
On another note, do I agree with the approach some of the others in this thread went with this? No. However do I agree with the attitude of either side? I don't and as I felt when Kod was running those For the Alliance raids... We all play on the same server, so why can't we all just find a way to be friends? That is all I have to say, please play nice.))
On another note, do I agree with the approach some of the others in this thread went with this? No. However do I agree with the attitude of either side? I don't and as I felt when Kod was running those For the Alliance raids... We all play on the same server, so why can't we all just find a way to be friends? That is all I have to say, please play nice.))
You can tell me to leave the thread all day long. I just don't like it when people have zero understanding about something as basic and fundamental as freedom of speech. I am sorry if teaching you something about the constitution and contract law is less important to you than discussing how to cook a Gnome!
09/07/2012 02:29 PMPosted by RaimmyYou can tell me to leave the thread all day long. I just don't like it when people have zero understanding about something as basic and fundamental as freedom of speech. I am sorry if teaching you something about the constitution and contract law is less important to you than discussing how to cook a Gnome!
((It *is* less important actually, when he never disagreed with the point you're making, and has stated this multiple times.))
I'm appalled that members of the alliance would even suggest to cook, let alone eat gnomes. If you have that urge I suggest you join the savages that do eat other sentient races called the horde.
((@Maethi: You've got a valid point; sometimes I feel this is an issue sourced in Blizzard's own comical treatment of gnomes, right down to the propensity for their tech to malfunction in humorous fashions, the comical music played near and in Gnomeregan, and several gnomish encounters out in the world. Part of it is a general fantasy stereotype: the "little guys" have often been comic relief. As dangerous as Tyrion Lannister is in "Song of Ice & Fire", he's still the comic relief. An extension of that into the game is understandable. This said, IC, I've rarely seen anyone mistreating gnomes. Most of the "mistreatment" comes largely from OOC jokes.
@Raimmy: I think I've given up on trying to communicate with you. You've latched on to something like a rottweiler, despite being told repeatedly that what you're trying to argue isn't the issue actually being discussed here. If you're being asked to leave the thread, it's solely because you keep trying to drag it off topic. No one can stop you, so by all means, do as you please. Don't be surprised if you don't get the reaction you're hoping for. Either way, you won't teach me anything about 1st amendment rights or contract law that I didn't learn when I was in college learning (among other things) about just those things. If you want to have that discussion, this isn't the thread you're going to find it in, no matter how much you keep trying to derail it to achieve that goal.))
@Raimmy: I think I've given up on trying to communicate with you. You've latched on to something like a rottweiler, despite being told repeatedly that what you're trying to argue isn't the issue actually being discussed here. If you're being asked to leave the thread, it's solely because you keep trying to drag it off topic. No one can stop you, so by all means, do as you please. Don't be surprised if you don't get the reaction you're hoping for. Either way, you won't teach me anything about 1st amendment rights or contract law that I didn't learn when I was in college learning (among other things) about just those things. If you want to have that discussion, this isn't the thread you're going to find it in, no matter how much you keep trying to derail it to achieve that goal.))
((Yeah, glad we don't have to argue like others to get to something we agree on... But alas, as I said even some of the ooc stuff makes it a challenge to rp seriously. Oh well, just hoping we can get a mutual agreement that we both can agree to someday. Also, if I would turn my head to a gnome getting eaten I'm sure you can guess which one.))
((Raimmy...you are saying Blizzard's contract takes away a CONSTITUTIONAL right? really? that's illegal and blizz can't jsut decide to take away our rights...so, i dont understand nor do i think your argument holds any water
but yes back on topic, GNOMES ARE FOOD NOT FRIENDS! well both really))
but yes back on topic, GNOMES ARE FOOD NOT FRIENDS! well both really))
Really Belpha? You signed a contract when you installed WoW. That contract contained terms and conditions that you must not have read. That contract lays out what you can and can't do inside of Blizzards game. You hit the "I accept" button. That is a binding contact between you and Blizzard. So you are bound legally by it. You can't then violate those terms and go to court and try and use the first amendment to say that I can say whatever I want in WoW because of freedom of speech. You signed a legal document and as long as there is nothing Illegal in the contract you are bound by its terms. That is the law!
09/07/2012 03:49 PMPosted by RaimmyYou can't then violate those terms and go to court and try and use the first amendment to say that I can say whatever I want in WoW because of freedom of speech.
yes, yes you can. and do you want to know why? because it's called freedom of speech, and that is a constitutional right, that no man,woman,child or institution is allowed to deny you.
Eating other sentient races, I believe should be a crime, and it's obvious Ragefang has committed the vile act, I mean he admitted to it in this thread. I personally think we as loyal alliance to either hang or exile this filth, we don't need someone such as him in the alliance, begone!!!!
And here we are one more time, my friend Avarence is the voice of reason!
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