World of Warcraft®

It seems odd that you see so many nice forsaken. I am not saying they have to be chaotic stupid, but come on here people. The only evil forsaken I can think of off the top of my head are Aziel, Arrens and Selima, though I haven't talked to her lately. Abom and his constant causing of colds amongst the fur bearing races is insane, not evil. I still say Abominus for server mascot.

Anyway it seems every forsaken pc wants to be nice. We are not nice. We melt you down in to a pleasent green goo. We murder entire races to add to our army. Our boss says go kill all the worgen and corrupt and steal their land and we are all sure! Sounds like a giggle. We turned Andorhal back into a land of the dead.

Does this sound nice to you?

I am a warlock. I am a forsaken. Neaither of these two conditions are conductive to passing out kittens and rainbows and being happy go lucky sorts. So come now fellow forsaken and let your inner demon out. Skin a worgen and make a run out of him. Use the bones of a gnome to make a harmonica. Nail a few human priests and paladins to their church walls before you burn it down. Put some blight in that dwarfs beer. I would say burn down the night elves forest, but our orc allies are doing a splendid job on that front. Carry on good fellows, carry on.

Hence the term chaotic stupid. I first heard this term playing knights of the old republic. You aren't really evil in bioware games, your just a jerkwad thug. While that is one type of evil I suppose, that is not quite what I am talking about.

To truly be evil one must repeatedly kill kittens in the Blood Elf starting area.

I would just like to point out that there is nothing more epic than a truly evil, female gnome death knight.

Except maybe a Tauren Shadow Priest.

...named Shadowburger.

Grrr. So I typed out this huge paragraph, hit send and it deleted all the text. DAMN YOU NEW FORUMS.


Armaya is probably categorized as evil. She is completely loyal to Sylvanas and the Forsaken, and believes for the most part that if the Forsaken needed to, they could stand on their own. This viewpoint of hers has increased since Sylvanas has started resurrecting new forsaken. She doesn't believe that what happened at the Wrathgate was good, persay, but she does think Putress was admirable for doing something that was basically condemning himself to a life of being hunted and then executed. Personally she would never do something so drastic, her moves would be in the shadows, or via ways that could not be connected back to her. She's always been a schemer. :-P



However, my other forsaken, Cjarsa, is quite the opposite of Armaya. Although also loyal to Sylvanas, she's innocent and shy, and quite good I'd say, even though since her awakening she has been thrown into the lot with a bunch of evil people (Soul Pact, if anyone remembers them, from back in BC, and then was pulled to Modas with a friend she knew in life.) However, she also met Raoul quite quickly, and I Think he was a major part in keeping her straight, proving that not all forsaken had to be so reckless, endangering and evil. She's also looked up highly to Ra since then, even has a crush on him, poor little warrior! :-P However, she also now has a "family" of kinds with Stefan Pyrak and Aleanda, two people she met longer on down the road. She's always looked up to Pyrak as a teacher of the combat arts.


So in my argument, I don't think all forsaken have to be evil. I believe that whatever happened to them in life, or death, is going to push them one way or the other, or make them neutral. Not all forsaken are going to agree with Sylvanas. I know a lot of people in the game that RP evil forsaken (Vincentwolfe, Aziel, Thelinna, Pyrak, Selima, (somewhat. I haven't RPed with her much at all since she returned, but Pre-BC/BC I would've considered her warlock self evil). And I know a lot of forsaken that don't do evil RP: Engrid & Raoul come to mind as the two most well known. My mind is a bit foggy right now, so I can't think of a lot of names for some reason. x.x

The one constant for the Forsaken is a diminished ability to feel, an unavoidable byproduct of enduring what they endured.

No matter who they are or how they are aligned, Forsaken will have at least a sligthly twisted understanding of right/wrong. Even the most well-meaning Forsaken (with rare exceptions) will be unable to completely empathize with/understand the living. I'm sure that with time and a lot of help (if one could find someone willing to really "befriend" a Forsaken), an individual Forsaken could "relearn" how to feel.

But this experience will be both difficult and rare in a world where most people are naturally (and to a point justifiably so) distrustful to outright hostile toward the Forsaken as a group.

I haven't RPed here in years (mostly due to lack of time, I don't like to RP unless I can really "get into it"), but I would be really delighted to meet a well played "good" Forsaken. If someone pulled it off, it would be really something to experience.

Will you sssupport the "Maggot for Every Eyesssocket" campaign we are thinking of embarking upon, yesss?

I completely agree.

I had an undead priest for a while who liked to skin the hands of young, nubile females so she could have the fingers/palm skin cured into gloves.

She preferred the look and feel of young, fleshy hands to her rotting ones, you see.

But I could never seem to make the right contacts horde side when I tried to level her, and she ended up getting deleted as I went back to the not-so-A-team.

Blood elves are really quite evil too, but I don't see too many people willing to "go there."

So I have to content myself with upending the priests-and-paladins-are-chaste-vow-takers stereotype on Alliance; no freshly skinned gloved hands for Nefiri.

Le sigh.

I'm not cuddly.

So come now fellow forsaken and let your inner demon out. Skin a worgen and make a rug out of him. Use the bones of a gnome to make a harmonica. Nail a few human priests and paladins to their church walls before you burn it down. Put some blight in that dwarfs beer. I would say burn down the night elves forest, but our orc allies are doing a splendid job on that front.

Splendid ideas, all of them. Vectus' personal favorite is torturing his victims to the brink of death, whilst assailing their mind until they are brought nigh upon the endless abyss of indelible insanity.

I wouldn't say he's evil, though. He's just expressing himself creatively and dealing with some minor personal issues.

No matter who they are or how they are aligned, Forsaken will have at least a slightly twisted understanding of right/wrong. Even the most well-meaning Forsaken (with rare exceptions) will be unable to completely empathize with/understand the living.

Nonsense! Vectus can totally empathize. He knows that asking his victims to be the object of his frustrations is a heavy burden, so he gives them the option of a swift death whenever they like (at least, after he ritualistically carves their flesh--can't forget that). How much more could they ask for?

By the way, you are all invited to the next Black Hand Society meeting, hosted by the Modas il Toralar. You will all undoubtedly find yourselves among favorable company. :D

I believe that your average citizen of the Horde is already pretty much in line with the Forsaken personality template.

I can recall, not so very long ago, this particular Forsaken happily agreeing to help the Cenarion Expedition kill the loot-hungry opportunists killing all the wildlife of the Borean Tundra, in order to curry favour with them and obtain rare and powerful artifacts.

I can also recall this very same Forsaken travelling to the Scholozar Basin to assist closely-related loot-hungry opportunists to kill large amounts of wildlife, purely in order to curry favour with them and gain access to rare and powerful artifacts.

The Horde exists to be used by each individual Forsaken for their own benefit. Morality is a thing that may have worried the human within once upon a time, but now saving the world is only a priority if there is potential personal gain involved.

Countless blood-tainted orcs, spirit-ridden trolls, magic-hungry blood elves and money obsessed goblins clearly also believe in this same principle - for mine, I can't help but wonder at how far the Tauren have strayed from their noble origins entirely of their own accord; surely that is the true oddity within the Horde.

Returning to the topic, if a given Forsaken feels that they can best gain personal influence and benefit by acting `cuddly', then that is a correct and proper drive. Tell your audience anything they want to hear...as long as you stand to get something out of it.

Come now, Aziel isn't evil... He's just misunderstood.

*goes back to considering spending money to transfer Saynlyn back to this realm*

Evil is such a subjective term, really.

I don't consider myself "evil" per se, honestly though, who does? I will, however, admit to a certain willingness to stab whoever needs it. Death really is such a transitory thing after all.

I believe our more "cuddly", as you say, members are simply a bit "developmentally hindered". They'll come around. After all, we have a very long time to adjust to things now, and if takes some longer than others to realize what a unique, and frankly, superior, position we forsaken occupy, well I am content to allow them the time they require.

I don't hold any particular animosity towards the races of the alliance, nor do I view the "living horde" as anything particularly unpleasant. After all, where I am now, they all may soon be walking. I'll work with any of them to achieve my goals. But neither will I allow any of them to hinder me and mine, or to get in the way to the natural progression of events. We, the enlightened dead, are the future, and it is high time people of all kinds accepted this.

Cordially
D.

02/09/2011 3:28 PMPosted by Armaya

Grrr. So I typed out this huge paragraph, hit send and it deleted all the text. DAMN YOU NEW FORUMS.

I apologize for being off-topic, but I just wanted to suggest that if you are using Firefox, an add-on named Lazarus has saved me from the situation you've just described multiple times.

It was ever my intention to create, with my own dead hands and living will, an organization which took as its purpose the safety and profitability of a well-sized citizenry.

To that end, I am willing to murder, maim, punish, enslave, beat, torture, spy, assassinate, steal, borrow, trade, ally, betray, kill (which is only very slightly different from murder), punish, and reward as necessary. I aim to be a sovereign. A wicked, but efficient, sovereign.

OOC, however, I just don't have the time to do that.

So. Were I to ever have the time and inclination to play Vladivar properly, he could quite easily satisfy your hunger for an evil Forsaken - albeit a thoroughly civil one.

Lawful Evil is the best Evil. >:) A road of good intentions willingly and happily paved with evil deeds. A ruthless, iron fist with all the appreciation for subtlety and appearances necessary to maintain the respect and fear of one's peers and subjects.

Of course, I'm way too busy playing my goody-goody philosopher-scholar Paladin and my thinks-she's-sexy wannabe-pirate gnome rogue.

I don't really have a problem with cuddly forsaken. The way I see it, is that WarCraft is not D&D, and therefor doesn't need to follow the general ideas in which the process of making oneself undead, means that you are basically consumed by evil in essence.

Not everyone who is Forsaken, was originally a bad guy, and therefor I see no reason why we need to turn good guys into bad guys just for the sake of undeaditude.

I would tend to agree with the idea that maybe during the process of becoming undead, they are a lot less sensitive to the psychological affects of a living person. They'd be less quick to joy, or depression, or even anger. However they may also be more in tune with negative feelings. Whereas a living neutral human would have thoughts of ripping someone's face off out of anger, but merely confined those thoughts to their inner thinking squishy bits, a Forsaken would be slower to barricade that thought in their mind, and would be quicker to react on it.

So in the end I can see Forsaken being cuddly, if by cuddly you mean "good guy" types, however while good guys might have evil and angry thoughts, Forsaken would have the same thoughts, but wouldn't be able to control them as well. And really, is it only the action that makes a person evil, or does it start with their thoughts first?

There is also the "cuddly" by way of being so stupid and innocent that there's no way they could purposely hurt you. Take "Britney S Pierce" from Glee. She is dumb as a bag of hammers, but she's also one of the "popular girls" which a lot of people tend to see as evil, and yet while she will probably do evil acts because her friends will do evil acts, she's too stupid to understand what she is doing.

I think someone who is stupid to begin with, who ends up becoming a Forsaken, might end up being even MORE stupid, because their mental capabilities would be somewhat more diminished.

I tend to agree with Paranitis's first paragraph although I must confess I don't have intimate knowledge of the Lore, and I returned to the game too late for the Wrath expansion.

However, I understand that there is a marked difference between the mindless Scourge, directly obeying the bidding of the Lich King, and the Forsaken, (mostly) with an allegiance to Sylvanas and, most importantly as far as this thread is concerned, self-determination.

Although most Forsaken may be described as unscrupulous, evil, or dastardly, I don't think it means that all Forsaken must align towards evil.

Exactly, Kogg.

The Scourge isn't even evil itself either. They are basically mindless automatons being controlled by another power. Forsaken are more akin to Pinocchio where they were once a puppet, and are now a "real boy", so it's really up to the individual Forsaken as to how they deal with things at this point. Having an allegiance to Sylvannas or otherwise plays no real part in whether they are evil or think for themselves. Forsaken to not work off of a hive-mind like the Scourge do.

Wait, we're not supposed to cuddle with claws in the eye sockets?

Huh. This is awkward.