How to roleplay a Night Elf.

90 Night Elf Rogue
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85 Night Elf Mage
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Mages
The Highborne are ancient Night Elves who were exiled from their home after refusing to stop practicing arcane magic. They have returned and it should be said that other races, specifically the Blood Elves, have them beat in magical progression. The majority of Kaldorei society would still outright fear the Highborne and anyone who practices the arcane.


I might pick a bone over this, simply because it is somewhat limited.

Mages within a Night Elven context are mostly Highborne, however it's evidence that some young Kaldorei Night Elves wish to also take up the Arcane arts. (Tower of Estulan has numerous Kaldorei Students).

Also as for magical progress and learning, I wouldn't say it is as clear cut. Eldre'Thalas was not entirely isolated from the outside world. Within the Shan'Dralar their is evidence they were continuing magical research (Example: Knowledge of the Ashbringer). Also It is not unreasonable for the Highborne to have similar knowledge to the High Elves (High Elves after all are the descendent's of the Highborne). Also consider that any returning Highborne would have either been born within Eldre'Thalas during the exile or before the exile and before the sundering and has thus been alive for roughly 10,000 years. I think it would be somewhat odd to assume that no further magical research and development or progress took place within Eldre'Thalas.

At most the two would be on different and divergent tracks and likely go about things differently but I wouldn't say one is more developed simply because one group (Blood Elves) are new and Highborne are are older.
85 Night Elf Mage
1740
12/23/2010 8:28 PMPosted by Eldamar
@ Tziel

According to Blood Elves in Azshara, you're wrong. The Highbourne aren't really that advanced when it comes to magical progression. That's why their city is mostly rubble and their prisons for demons are failing. They aren't improving anything, just getting by on what they've been doing for the past ten thousand years.

They seemed content with thinking their magic was superior and thus no need to progress, but still took an interest in world affairs either before or after the Third War and sent people out to collect new information.


Can I get a link to the Blood Elves in Azshara part? Thus far I have never actually been bothered to play Horde side or quest in Azshara previous to the "Shattering" patch.

If you would be so kind.
90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
12/23/2010 8:33 PMPosted by Tziel
@ Tziel

According to Blood Elves in Azshara, you're wrong. The Highbourne aren't really that advanced when it comes to magical progression. That's why their city is mostly rubble and their prisons for demons are failing. They aren't improving anything, just getting by on what they've been doing for the past ten thousand years.

They seemed content with thinking their magic was superior and thus no need to progress, but still took an interest in world affairs either before or after the Third War and sent people out to collect new information.


Can I get a link to the Blood Elves in Azshara part? Thus far I have never actually been bothered to play Horde side or quest in Azshara previous to the "Shattering" patch.

If you would be so kind.


I don't have the quest but it goes as follows:

A Blood Elf magister notices that the Highborne are using Arcane elementals as personal summons. He mocks them for it because Blood Elves had outlawed that practice hundreds of years prior because of a fatal flaw in their summoning.

He uses this flaw, making the player enrage and disrupt a rather large Arcane elemental. The elemental rampages through the Highborne camp and slaughters ever magister there.
85 Night Elf Mage
1740



Can I get a link to the Blood Elves in Azshara part? Thus far I have never actually been bothered to play Horde side or quest in Azshara previous to the "Shattering" patch.

If you would be so kind.


I don't have the quest but it goes as follows:

A Blood Elf magister notices that the Highborne are using Arcane elementals as personal summons. He mocks them for it because Blood Elves had outlawed that practice hundreds of years prior because of a fatal flaw in their summoning.

He uses this flaw, making the player enrage and disrupt a rather large Arcane elemental. The elemental rampages through the Highborne camp and slaughters ever magister there.


I will keep that in mind. I have so far followed that line a bit. Though IC Tziel is aware of nearly half her spells being somewhat dated, she won't readily admit it.
Edited by Tziel on 12/23/2010 9:03 PM PST
85 Night Elf Mage
1740
12/23/2010 8:28 PMPosted by Eldamar
@ Tziel

According to Blood Elves in Azshara, you're wrong. The Highbourne aren't really that advanced when it comes to magical progression. That's why their city is mostly rubble and their prisons for demons are failing. They aren't improving anything, just getting by on what they've been doing for the past ten thousand years.

They seemed content with thinking their magic was superior and thus no need to progress, but still took an interest in world affairs either before or after the Third War and sent people out to collect new information.


Also, I might be one to point out that if the NPC linked by the other poster is you basis for the rest of your statement I will ask what springboard you jumped on to leap that far.

Eldre'Thalas' decline might have more to do with the Princes actions and secrets and his inner circle being in control then the effectiveness and or quality of Highborne spellcasting. Within Eldre'Thalas you have a lot more going on then I think your letting on.

85 Night Elf Mage
1740
12/23/2010 9:17 PMPosted by Eldamar
Also, I might be one to point out that if the NPC linked by the other poster is you basis for the rest of your statement I will ask what springboard you jumped on to leap that far.

Eldre'Thalas' decline might have more to do with the Princes actions and secrets and his inner circle being in control then the effectiveness and or quality of Highborne spellcasting. Within Eldre'Thalas you have a lot more going on then I think your letting on.


It isn't. I was considering the fact that there aren't any cultural hubs for Highbourne outside of Eldre'thalas and the distinct lack of progressive magic or technology in their own city. It doesn't matter who's fault it is, the fact of the amtter still stands that the Highbourne are far from the most advanced magic users on Azeroth.

If the Highbourne as a whole were interested in learning newer styles of magic, they would have inside or outside of their city. The only thing the Prince did to hamper this was killing off his own people because they lacked the ability to sustain their prison of Immol'thar.


I don't believe any Highborne, as in Night Elves of the former Highborne caste, existed as Night Elves beyond Eldre'Thalas. To my knowledge no Highborne beyond Eldre'Thalas escaped far to the outside world. The possibility of being killed by Kaldorei would be enough to ensure continued residence within the city. Also one can assume that perhaps Estulan was the only one to reside beyond the wall.

Also I contested what I read to be your implication that a lack of progression caused the cities decline. Also that arrogance or collective arrogance was the cause of said lack of progression. That likely had little to nothing to do with the actual decline of Eldre'Thalas in any real sense. Killing off significant numbers of the population will have a graver impact then say continued mass arrogance or self assuredness amongst the populace. That by and by is a fairly large hamper, if you kill off say a third of San Fransisco you will find the material wealth, prosperity and in fact much of the physical city will decay along with it's culture and creativity. (Example being say Detroit where much of the cities population is no longer there). I hate to use real life examples for this but I think you jumped to a tad to many conclusions and assumptions right there.

I might also say your taking the quest text of that NPC to mean and imply far more then it really does.
85 Night Elf Mage
1740
12/23/2010 9:38 PMPosted by Eldamar
You're correct. Though, if fear of being found by the Kaldorei was their reason for staying, what would make them think than an Ancient Highbourne city, well known before the Sundering, would keep them safe from the rest of the Kaldorei? It doesn't appear that fear was their motivation for staying locked up, otherwise they would've left with Anastrin Sunstrider and his lot.


I might state that the Kaldorei, may have never been away of their Arcane using brothers and sisters within the city. And prior to the Shattering patch didn't have a great deal of presence in Feralas proper and may not have had much of a presence there at all.

Also, it is uncertain if at the time Anastrin that those within the City where aware of one another.

12/23/2010 9:38 PMPosted by Eldamar
Their magic


Theirs?

Prince of Eldre'Thalas, Tortheldrin, began construction of pylons now littering the halls of the west wing. The Prince plotted to imprison a demon of immense power, Immol'thar behind a grand force field.


Cited from the WoWwiki article on the Shen'Dralar. First it should be noted that this was largely an individual and his inner circles idea.

The once net gain turned to loss. In response to this crisis, Prince Tortheldrin and his Shen'dralar loyalists began murdering their fellow Highborne, sacrificing their victims' life force to fuel the pylons in order to keep Immol'thar imprisoned and preserve their immortality. At least one Highborne, a quest giver named Azj'Tordin, has escaped death at the hands of Prince Tortheldrin, but most have not been so lucky. Their spirits now wander the corridors and courtyards of Dire Maul. Unsurprisingly, Prince Tortheldrin guards jealously the secret of this arrangement, and those who meddle in his domain, such as the blood elf Kariel Winthalus, can expect a brutal end.


Further citations seem to imply that much of the activity around the Demon was the Princes making and the murder of countless Highborne within the city was the work of him and his most loyal inner circle. I.E., this was the actions of a fairly powerful tyrant.

...was failing and yet no one was able to find an answer as to why or how to fix it. This proves that either they're horrible with magic or they refused to believe this, which would've lead to such drastic and somewhat illogical actions on the Prince's half.


Did they act as a community? You make it sound as if they all gathered and decided for lack of any new ideas to start killing each other off to save power. Also it never seems to state that some communal gathering was held to "Solve" this issue. You now imply that the Highborne lacked any creativity or problem solving? This is lunacy and unfounded. Unless you can cite a source that it was a collective effort... I call foul here. There is as far as I can tell no direct evidence that the sacrifice of citizens was done as a communal effort for lack of a better solution but merely the solution of a tyrant ruler of the city.

Citing Azj'Tordin a Highborne NPC who fled the city upon learning of the true activities of the prince (Hint, that means to some degree his actions where at least partially unknown to the remain populous)

I regret nothing, stranger. The Queen has long since passed. The works of the Shen'Dralar have been marred by the madness of Prince Tortheldrin. I seek only freedom... Escape...


We can somewhat get an idea that the Shen'Dralar were engaged in some sort of works (Possibly continued magical research? maybe) however from other sources and the cited NPC one can at least cast a reasonable belief that perhaps the Prince and his closest circle acted on their own and dictated what would happen and where the architects of the cities decline.... not due to some fault of the Highborne collectively.

Sir, I think your jumping to some radical conclusions without any solid merit to them.

85 Night Elf Mage
1740
Also to cover more on the topic

Citation: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=14358#comments

Shen'dralar Ancient within the Capital Guardians states fairly clearly:

The Highborne ghosts that you see wandering through the courtyard and halls of Eldre'Thalas were slain, not by invading Gordok ogres or satyrs, but by the Prince himself!


So wait it wasn't because the Highborne lacked the creative thought to invent a new solution? It was the Prince? Hmmmm


The people were destroyed in order to preserve the Prince's immortal life and near limitless powers. The power once divided among thousands now funnels into the Prince and the Shen'dralar zealots...


So an implication further is that the Prince was greedy and sought to horde the power source to himself.

So in fact I think we have ample proof that Eldre'Thalas did not fall due to a lack of creativity or magical development of the Highborne. In fact we have textual evidence via Azj'Tordin that in fact some work of some sort continued and we have a great volume of backing to conclude that in fact it had more to due with the Prince (Acting largely alone) that both Highborne were killed and that the city declined.
90 Night Elf Rogue
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90 Goblin Shaman
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12/24/2010 4:02 PMPosted by Daggles
bump

Now you're making me angry.


Are you going to have to improvise?
85 Night Elf Mage
1740
12/23/2010 10:30 PMPosted by Eldamar
Or that there were those amongst the populous who disagreed with the majority and left or rebeled. It didn't start off as drastic numbers. It was a few, then it escalated when things got worse. For all we know, the original plan was the very lowest and inept of their populace which the majority viewed as lower.


First off we have no actual proof that is how things went down in less you got something to back that I am going to have to respectively but aggressively disagree with your characterization.

We could go with your theory but there is no backing it as far as I know.

12/23/2010 10:30 PMPosted by Eldamar
With them gone, it would advance to the next minority "rank", leaving the majority who were higher against the few. It would leave most of the population on the winning side, since you're only removing slivers with each cut.


That is a nice story but so far we see no reason to believe that is what happened.

12/23/2010 10:30 PMPosted by Eldamar
This is Lore that Blizzard hasn't written much about and everything I give is completely my speculation and far from definitive facts. I hope you can see that.


I see that and that is probably why I aggressively disagree with it.

It's speculation, a lot of it. I on the other hand offer a different set of speculation, which I feel and I think I have shown to be more substantial and with possibly more merit.

12/23/2010 10:29 PMPosted by Eldamar
I honestly can't say I know for sure, nor can you. There is no evidence that says the majority of the population, however large that might've been, took any steps towards fixing their problem or even disagreed with their Prince. We only have what remians.

I did not say they lacked creativity or problem solving, only that if they attempted to do so ( which there is no evidence of), it failed.


Actually it appears that no attempt was made to solve the problem, and indeed it is possible none were even aware a problem needed solving. So far as I can tell only the Prince and his inner circle where aware that a problem existed that required any solution and the Princes solution became the one they followed.

EDIT:

12/24/2010 4:02 PMPosted by Daggles
bump

Now you're making me angry.


I am sorry did I just /bump into you?
Edited by Tziel on 12/24/2010 4:49 PM PST
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