World of Warcraft®

04/03/2014 11:58 AMPosted by Shuttle

BETA?!

Go home blood legion, this is a lore thread!

Maybe the curse works with blood mixing with saliva......

Mothers who test positive for the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) are able to give birth to children who will not carry the virus. It's a delicate procedure and the risk is always extremely high but still possible nonetheless. If you were to apply this to the lore, it might make some more sense. Although I can't imagine all worgen mothers go through a caesarean section.

04/03/2014 01:06 PMPosted by Bashiok

I'm the wrong person to ask about any lore, ever, but if it's a curse and not an infectious disease I would imagine the specifics of the curse dictate how it's transmitted.

So in other words, worgen children should be worgen, given how we've seen it be transmitted (through blood).

Gotcha.

:D

Genedar as in Genesis, where Exodar is as in Exodus? Interesting.

04/03/2014 11:43 AMPosted by Nethaera

R west @mrnerdzesq: Does Tyrande still hold enough authority over Malfurion to revert to being sole leader?
CDev Response: I'm afraid not. (Imagine that dinner conversation!) Darnassus is officially co-ruled by Malfurion and Tyrande, united with each other and with their people. A key thing to keep in mind is how their union allows them to work in tandem. These two leaders are focused on different aspects of governing their people, and this new method of governance truly suits them and the kaldorei nation as a whole.

Malfurion is a druid. Tyrande is supposed to speak for everyone else. Why is the druid (who is only in charge of druid things in a portion of the society, not all) now a co-leader of the matriarchal society? Marriage doesn't mean you share a job, even if you've married the ruler. He's just a consort and leader of the druids.

04/03/2014 01:15 PMPosted by Dravinna

04/03/2014 11:43 AMPosted by Nethaera

R west @mrnerdzesq: Does Tyrande still hold enough authority over Malfurion to revert to being sole leader?
CDev Response: I'm afraid not. (Imagine that dinner conversation!) Darnassus is officially co-ruled by Malfurion and Tyrande, united with each other and with their people. A key thing to keep in mind is how their union allows them to work in tandem. These two leaders are focused on different aspects of governing their people, and this new method of governance truly suits them and the kaldorei nation as a whole.

Malfurion is a druid. Tyrande is supposed to speak for everyone else. Why is the druid (who is only in charge of druid things a portion of the society, not all) now a co-leader of the matriarchal society? Marriage doesn't mean you share a job, even if you've married the ruler. He's just a consort and leader of the druids.

That's how it's always been though, even before malfurion came back, fandral ruled over druidic matters and disagreed with tyrande often.

04/03/2014 01:20 PMPosted by Leo

That's how it's always been though, even before malfurion came back, fandral ruled over druidic matters and disagreed with tyrande often.

Exactly. Druid matters. Not the whole society. They weren't co rulers.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

So in other words, worgen children should be worgen, given how we've seen it be transmitted (through blood).

Gotcha.

:D

Well. I don't know about how it's been portrayed, again, I am the worst lore person ever, but if it's a curse and not an infectious disease then the act of transmission matters, and not necessarily the substance. If the act of drinking blood transmits the curse, then the blood may not necessarily be a transmitter itself. Accidentally splashing worgen blood on an open wound, for example, may not transmit, as opposed to ingesting the blood as that could specifically be how the curse is dictated to transmit. Just a thought, anyway.

But the issue there is its never just been shown as a transmission of blood. Because at this point, assuming the curse aspect is right on, then there are at least two ways to become a worgen;

1) Get bite and be forcibly transformed whether you want to or not.

2) Drink the blood, apparently willingly as non-willing transmission (i.e blood on a wound) is a no go, and be transformed.

But those are a completely different set of scenarios where both the method of spreading the curse, as well as the intentions of the receiver and spreader, are completely different as well. So if it's the curse in particular and not the method then the worgen curse apparently has a wiiiide range of ways to transmit that appear to have no real consistency between each other.

*sighs, starts eyeing race change options*

Wonder how Al would look in blue skin...

04/03/2014 01:16 PMPosted by Bashiok

Well. I don't know about how it's been portrayed, again, I am the worst lore person ever, but if it's a curse and not an infectious disease then the act of transmission matters, and not necessarily the substance. If the act of drinking blood transmits the curse, then the blood may not necessarily be a transmitter itself. Accidentally splashing worgen blood on an open wound, for example, may not transmit, as opposed to ingesting the blood as that could specifically be how the curse is dictated to transmit. Just a thought, anyway.

I was mostly joking, in any event. I can't change their decision, I can only complain, and that won't do a thing beyond making me go harrumph.

I think that with all that we've seen with the curse, it should be enough to transmit it to the child. The whole genetics thing, for one, seems odd, given the fact that their "natural" form seems now to be worgen, not human (hence why they shift back to it when hurt or angry, its their default). It also has changed them enough so that they are no longer classified as human (to the val'kyr, anyway, as they cannot be resurrected, though I've seen some theorize that maybe its just druidic magic interfering there. But given how the other non-humans, being non-human, can not be risen, I would lean more toward worgen being non-human as well), so I would say that, genetically, worgen are, well, worgen.

Couple that with blood transmitting it in some manner, it seems like it'd be logical for a baby in the womb to be cursed as well.

Further, we have seen another curse get passed down from parent to child, in the curse of flesh, though like you've said, it may be due to a different way of being passed on, who knows in that regard. But curses can be passed on in general.

Finally, while you are right in the blood splashed on open wound may not cause it, the baby is hooked to its mother, so I would say its a different situation for that (though I confess my knowledge of how it all works is a little fuzzy, its been over a decade since I was in high school and my health classes weren't the best. We mostly watched movies. Yay education!).

And finally, I just feel that this answer cheapens the worgen. It basically means that after the current generation of worgen die out, its highly unlikely that any will be around.

Plus, the last thing the Alliance needs is more normal humans.

04/03/2014 01:31 PMPosted by Cirno

Plus, the last thing the Alliance needs is more normal humans.

Yeah! Right on! Honestly, this ruling is looking to be as unpopular as the dragon sterility

04/03/2014 01:05 PMPosted by Underwood

Mothers who test positive for the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) are able to give birth to children who will not carry the virus. It's a delicate procedure and the risk is always extremely high but still possible nonetheless. If you were to apply this to the lore, it might make some more sense. Although I can't imagine all worgen mothers go through a caesarean section.

Pretty sure HIV is a virus and not magic.

And for the people arguing that it should work because it's blood transfer: Bites don't transfer blood. And only in one instance has it been said that drinking the blood turns people, and in that case it was not explained whether it was just the blood itself, or whether it was treated in some way, etc. Or it could easily just be that the act of taking the blood willingly caused them to be subject to the curse, and not the effect of the blood itself.

It's magic. The original curse was enacted when the druids willingly submitted to the power of the Scythe of Elune; if not bitten, I would imagine that choice would play a large part in becoming cursed.

04/03/2014 01:16 PMPosted by Bashiok

Well. I don't know about how it's been portrayed, again, I am the worst lore person ever, but if it's a curse and not an infectious disease then the act of transmission matters, and not necessarily the substance. If the act of drinking blood transmits the curse, then the blood may not necessarily be a transmitter itself. Accidentally splashing worgen blood on an open wound, for example, may not transmit, as opposed to ingesting the blood as that could specifically be how the curse is dictated to transmit. Just a thought, anyway.

So it's a ritual thing. That seems in line with magic. Fantasy universes always tend to play fast and loose with things like genetics (goodness knows that happens in Warcraft), so why wouldn't there be a ritual element to the worgen curse? Perhaps worgen blood is simply a medium for the curse, and it requires a secondary component to pass on, like the biting aspect for feral worgen, or willfully ingesting in the case of Silverpine.

Awesome stuff, but disappointed in the lack of any new Gnome stuff, particularly very basic lore questions that have never been explained, like...

1. How were the Gnomes able to live in Khaz Modan for centuries without being discovered by the Dwarves until fairly recently? One would think their incessant experimentation would attract attention.

2. When exactly was Gnomeregan built, how large is it, and how many Gnomes lived there prior to The Fall? We know the city had at *least* 17 "Sectors", and that the Gnomes of today represent a mere 20% of those that lived prior to The Fall.

3. High Tinker Gelbin Mekkatorque is the only known High Tinker, yet Gnomes have been electing their leaders for hundreds of years. Who were the previous leaders of the Gnomes, and how have they left their mark on the history of Azeroth?

4. What caused Thermaplugg to go off the deep end in a way that is so uncharacteristic of Gnomes? Was he really so power hungry that losing out on the top job to Gelbin Mekkatorque unhinged him to the point that murdering countless gnomes, women and children seemed to him like a logical way to get promoted?? Or was he corrupted by an as yet unknown force?

5. What caused the Mighty Millhouse Manastorm to be imprisoned in the Arcatraz? Is he truly evil, or was he (like his "Stir Crazy" quoted counterpart) framed for a crime he didnt commit? Why was he seen fraternizing in Cata with the Twilight's Hammer cultists? Could he have been infiltrating their ranks for another reason? And is he really dead, or might his mage ability to Slow Fall have saved him?

6. We know that in "Times past, all warlocks in Khaz Modan were trained under the auspices of the masters of Gnomeregan"* This strongly implies that the Dwarves learned the Fel magical arts and sciences from the Gnomes. But where did the Gnomes learn Warlockery from, since this would appear to pre-date their admittance into the Alliance?
*http://www.wowhead.com/quest=1715/the-slaughtered-lamb

These and other questions inquiring Gnomes want to know!

- Forbs
"For Gnomeregan!"

04/03/2014 11:43 AMPosted by Nethaera

In theory, if two worgen were to mate and produce an offspring, that offspring would not be a worgen. The child would merely possess the genetic material of his or her parents, like any other child sans the curse.

On the one hand I like it, but on the other hand wouldn't the blood from their mother curse them?

04/03/2014 11:43 AMPosted by Nethaera

Long ago, tribes of vrykul were scattered across ancient northern Kalimdor. One tribe in particular struggled against a terrible malaise that ravaged its people.

Combatting this affliction, this "curse of flesh," all but consumed the tribe. After exhausting all natural attempts, the tribe sought the aid of its priestesses. These women plumbed the world of spirits for answers, but they found only a malevolent entity lying in wait.

Their ritual went horribly wrong, as the entity further corrupted those that sought freedom from their curse. These eternally vengeful beings would later be called the Kvaldir.

Neat!

04/03/2014 11:43 AMPosted by Nethaera

Now that time has begun to heal these grievous wounds, the draenei speak of the Genedar more openly amongst their allies.

Also neat! Obviously derived from "Genesis" :p

The Genedar = Genesis
The Exodar = Exodus

... so what happened to...
The Levitidar = Leviticus
The Numedar = Numbers
The Duetedar = Deuteronomy

??

(I just like that last one for how it rolls off the tongue)

04/03/2014 01:43 PMPosted by Nyxana

It's magic. The original curse was enacted when the druids willingly submitted to the power of the Scythe of Elune; if not bitten, I would imagine that choice would play a large part in becoming cursed.

Which would be reasonable...except for the events in GIlneas where people are turned into feral worgen completely against their will via the bites. No blood there, at least not a ton, and the converts were completely unwilling in that case.

Unless theres something else going on then that I'm not aware of I'm calling shenanigans.