World of Warcraft®

woah woah woah. :(

I felt like there were legit questions made and respectfully in this thread.

Of course, and I believe we talked, in a civil manner, you and I.

04/04/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Melyria

I find it amazing that it seems to be the same six individuals, over and over and over again.

The sad part is that it takes the same six individuals to actually give you feedback beyond "WOW GREAT GUIDE +1 +1 +1 GAME OF THE YEAR."

I find it amazing that it seems to be the same six individuals, over and over and over again. It seems that, for the most part, those half dozen people are the ones who have any real problem. Everyone else must be sheep. Those six people, well... they're just free thinkers. Right? Enlightened souls, able to pierce the veil, able to see what everyone else cannot.

I mean, it isn't like there is a common thing binding them all together, is there? That would be absurd. Truly, truly insane. Like, maybe their favorite color is red. Or they all eat their hamburgers upside down. No, nothing in common at all. No colors or how they eat their food. Certainly not that they've been vindictive and all have had issue with me in the past. Or, y'know, they all are left handed or something.

Because if there was a single string that tied all those opinions together. Perhaps a bias... well. Then the whole argument falls apart, doesn't it? Because if the same people all share a thread, a bias, well... then maybe they aren't so enlightened. Maybe, they're just letting their bias get the better of them.

But that would be hillariously petty and absurd. Thank goodness.

And I find it truly amazing that rather than work to improve and better tune something that you obviously put a lot of effort into and for the most part you did a very good job with, you're just going to disregard valid, reasoned questions in favor of the supposition that there is some grand conspiracy against you.

People posed valid questions, and pointed out flaws in the language of your post. What happened?

They get shouted down by your legion of sycophants and bombarded with vapid "haters gonna hate' responses.

People press the issue, repeat the questions time and again, and try to make their intent and rationale clear. What happened?

You show up and try to marginalize anyone that dares to question you by declaring that there is some kind of conspiracy or some nonsense.

Newsflash, Melyria. Nobody here is crapping on your work as a whole. Pretty much without exception, people have approved of it as a whole. You're not a poor widdle victim. You posted your work up for others, and some of those others raised some very valid concerns, a number of them with citations of their own. You don't even deem it worthy of a response.

Obviously there is a conspiracy out to get you. It coudn't be that there are indeed places in your otherwise solid guide that could use work.

You're clearly the victim here. I'm sad to see the cynical side of me was right all along.

The bolded cannot be emphasized enough. Bradell and I have already said that most of the guide is well-written, and there's a good reason why only a few parts of it are being criticized.

You're clearly the victim here. I'm sad to see the cynical side of me was right all along.

I'm not going to discuss something with somebody who makes backhanded attacks on me interspersed with 'complaints'.

I'm not going to argue with somebody who is known to use flawed, circular logic because I am not going to spend 10 hours arguing with them.

You'll notice I actually modified my guide when somebody respectfully pointed out an issue.

Some people want their opinions heard? Then maybe they should improve their attitude so I have a reason to not tune them out. Are you inclined to listen to a person who attacks you? Or are you more likely to pay attention to somebody who actually treats you like a person and not an enemy?

It's so not a conspiracy. Unless you say something that could be taken as attacking people for who they disagreed with. ;)


I suspect she's frustrated that so much of the content is not factual discussion. When you come back to a thread and there's little debate but a lot of two groups of people flinging mud at each other and people speculating on her potential for lack of integrity. People get frustrated on occasion, or sometimes sound frustrated like all the time. I do it, then I lolban to take it out on the miserable ants in my purview. ANTS!

04/04/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Caristinn

The sad part is that it takes the same six individuals to actually give you feedback beyond "WOW GREAT GUIDE +1 +1 +1 GAME OF THE YEAR."

I believe this is a disingenuous assessment of the thread. A number of people outside that group have questioned the content, myself included.

Is there any reason why a Night Elf would only worship Elune, seeing as how religions in World of Warcraft function as more of a power source than anything? It's been shown that the Light and Elune are equal in power with some advantages to each.

Also interested in seeing the citation about arcane being banned in Teldrassil, seeing as how there's a portal to the Exodar in the middle of the Temple of Elune.

EDIT: It seems like Wolfheart is the citation. Should the game's lore take precedence over the book's lore if there's a conflict between the two?

Do Glaive Throwers count?

There is also an Engineering trainer in Darnassus that can teach you to use flying machines, and in Mists of Pandaria there is a quest NPC that pilots (and presumably built) a flying machine to go to Pandaland.

Some people want their opinions heard? Then maybe they should improve their attitude so I have a reason to not tune them out. Are you inclined to listen to a person who attacks you? Or are you more likely to pay attention to somebody who actually treats you like a person and not an enemy?

The above is clearly seething with hostility, although I believe you are replying to this instead:

Caristinn
60 Human Death Knight
Ribs

and

Cerdwyn
85 Night Elf Druid
Will of Elune

Rather than to the post content itself.

I believe this is a disingenuous assessment of the thread. A number of people outside that group have questioned the content, myself included.

Somewhat of a hyperbole, but the point still stands.

also nobody +1s because nobody uses google plus

04/04/2012 01:57 PMPosted by Lito

also nobody +1s because nobody uses google plus

i use +1 as a broad term tbh

04/04/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Caristinn

Is there any reason why a Night Elf would only worship Elune, seeing as how religions in World of Warcraft function as more of a power source than anything? It's been shown that the Light and Elune are equal in power with some advantages to each.

If God came down and did a few miracles, would you suddenly start worshipping another god? Elune have proof of their Goddess' existance, her sentience and 'proof' of her involvement with the Night Elves being created (By way of Cenarius).

Also interested in seeing the citation about arcane being banned in Teldrassil, seeing as how there's a portal to the Exodar in the middle of the Temple of Elune.

EDIT: It seems like Wolfheart is the citation. Should the game's lore take precedence over the book's lore if there's a conflict between the two?

The book came out after the portals were made. Furthermore, the portals are not referenced anywhere in the game by NPCs. The game would be a lot more difficult for Draenei / Night Elf players without these portals.

Finally, the portals were active during the time where quests specifically said arcane magic was punishable by death (Quests in Desolace) amongst the Night Elves.

There is much more overwhelming evidence that these are there for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons.

04/04/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Caristinn

Do Glaive Throwers count?

Glaive thowers use the stupid, recycled IoC model, which was mechanized. You can see non-mechanized glaive throwers all over Kalimdor. Blizzard's laziness is something to behold.

04/04/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Caristinn

There is also an Engineering trainer in Darnassus that can teach you to use flying machines

Who is a worgen, not a Night Elf.

04/04/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Caristinn

and in Mists of Pandaria there is a quest NPC that pilots (and presumably built) a flying machine to go to Pandaland.

Who works and presumably lives in Stormwind, so he isn't exactly the paragon if Night Elven tradition, is he? Also, no proof he built the thing because it is quite literally part of a squadron of jets.

The above is clearly seething with hostility, although I believe you are replying to this instead:

Forgive me for not wanting to talk to people who have either harassed me or openly stated they hate me.

04/04/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Bradell

Some people want their opinions heard? Then maybe they should improve their attitude so I have a reason to not tune them out. Are you inclined to listen to a person who attacks you? Or are you more likely to pay attention to somebody who actually treats you like a person and not an enemy?

Point me to the response(s) where the criticisms of the guide have been nasty.

Once you do that, i'll be happy to point out the places where the supposedly nasty people have lauded your work, raised questions, and even provided citations of their own.

Nobody is attacking you. Get over yourself.

Actually, that isn't true. I've counted a few posts attacking me, the person.

No, what I'm actually talking about is I don't want to talk to people who have, in the past, attacked and, for the most part, made me irritated or miserable.

You don't get to attack a person repeatedly, then walk up to them one day and expect a clean slate.

If God came down and did a few miracles, would you suddenly start worshipping another god? Elune have proof of their Goddess' existance, her sentience and 'proof' of her involvement with the Night Elves being created (By way of Cenarius).

That depends. I can imagine that there is a World of Warcraft version of atheists around-- they acknowledge that there's a god unlike real life atheists, but use it as a method of acquiring power rather than actually worshopping the god. This was also on the liberal section of Night Elves, who would be less inclined to have reverence for Elune.

The book came out after the portals were made. Furthermore, the portals are not referenced anywhere in the game by NPCs. The game would be a lot more difficult for Draenei / Night Elf players without these portals.

Finally, the portals were active during the time where quests specifically said arcane magic was punishable by death (Quests in Desolace) amongst the Night Elves.

There is much more overwhelming evidence that these are there for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons.

The game and book can -tell- us that arcane magic is illegal, but does it really hold any weight when there are two portals in the middle of elune, one of them being a non standardized (every capital has a dark portal port) one? They also have interesting placement in the Temple of Elune rather than a different section of the city, and convenience really isn't an argument when there's a boat between Rutheran Village and Azuremyst. We don't have a portal between Stormwind and Ironforge.

Another reason the portals could have been put there is to symbolize the acceptance of Highborne into Kaldorei society during Cata.

Glaive thowers use the stupid, recycled IoC model, which was mechanized. You can see non-mechanized glaive throwers all over Kalimdor. Blizzard's laziness is something to behold.

Just how would a non mechanized glaive thrower work?

04/04/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Melyria

Who is a worgen, not a Night Elf.

Was not aware, disregard. Although I do think there was a Night Elf engineering trainer there pre-Cata but I could be wrong.

Who works and presumably lives in Stormwind, so he isn't exactly the paragon if Night Elven tradition, is he? Also, no proof he built the thing because it is quite literally part of a squadron of jets.

If he works and lives in Stormwind is he not a purple human? It doesn't seem likely that he didn't build them, seeing as how he does know how to fly one.

04/04/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Caristinn

Was not aware, disregard. Although I do think there was a Night Elf engineering trainer there pre-Cata but I could be wrong.

Nope, had to go to Auberdine for Engineering training pre-cata. Same with most metal working professions.

04/04/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Iltharius

Was not aware, disregard. Although I do think there was a Night Elf engineering trainer there pre-Cata but I could be wrong.

Nope, had to go to Auberdine for Engineering training pre-cata. Same with most metal working professions.

Oh right, I remember that now. Glad that Blizzard kept a bit of consistency seeing as how there's no damn ore in Teldrassil.

04/04/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Caristinn

If he works and lives in Stormwind is he not a purple human? It doesn't seem likely that he didn't build them, seeing as how he does know how to fly one.

Operating a machine is not the same as building one, though it would be just as erroneous to assume that he certainly did not build it.

it might seem that you need to be an engineer to operate flying machines, based on the engineering prof, but all of my characters have successfully piloted flying machines without training or knowledge of building them, according to quests

and man do i hate eng

it might seem that you need to be an engineer to operate flying machines, based on the engineering prof, but all of my characters have successfully piloted flying machines without training or knowledge of building them, according to quests

and man do i hate eng

To be fair, our characters are adventurers. We're straight up mary sues.

I think it's kind of weird though that you go from killing wolves in Northshire to piloting a damn siege engine within the span of ~20 levels tho