How to Roleplay a Night Elf 2.0

90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
05/27/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Sevelic
I had just read that the kaldorei would allow those males who showed a proficiency in the warrior/hunter/rogue arts to train in said arts. I must have read my lore sort of sideways.


Well, like I said, nobody is stopping men from beign a hunter or a warrior. The difference is that instead of being part of the formal military, they either act as militia, work as part of the Cenarion Wardens or put those skills to use (such as hunting for meat).


05/27/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Sevelic
But this guide is good to show people that in kaldorei society males aren't second-class citizens or scum, as i've seen a few Kaldorei RP'ers portray them as.


This is never true, the male Kaldorei are still respected and aren't deemed inferior. Heck, the best kaldorei tactitian was male.
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85 Orc Shaman
2310
I'm looking to take a Nelf prisoner of war. What should I know while shopping around?
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645
Omacron, I appreciate the input, however much of the guide is based on a logical progression. At the same time, much of the information you claim conflicts with information taken directly from the RPG books (and has not really been contradicted since). Things like the group families, Kaldorei men being more artisans, etc.

Er, all of the information I provided is cited, and the majority of it comes from sources published AFTER the RPG. Also, pray tell, what manner of logic have you used here, besides jumping to conclusions? You can't say "oh, look, my reasoning is logical" without actually SHOWING it. And a lot of what you said is just pulled out of your rear, like the "group families" thing. You don't provide ANY citations, period. There are some generally correct things in your post (namely, those I did not rebut), but unfortunately even more is made up crapola.



05/27/2011 12:58 PMPosted by Melyria
As for things like diet, I said mostly vegetarian, which is to say that meat does still exist in their diet but it is not the focus in the same way other cultures have it.

And I said, based on their culture and habitat, meat would actually factor MORE into their diet than both modern humans and most other Warcraft cultures. Societies that live in dense forests tend to get more of their nutrition from hunting than those who have farmland for raising crops, and since we know night elves have hunters... what do you think they do with what they kill?



On the item of necromancy, I find that you're taking a bare bones effect from WC3 and trying to expand on it when it conflicts with past lore. Wardens gain their power from Elune, much like how Priestesses do (skills such as Blink and Greater Invisibility rely on the Warden's faith) and Avatar of Vengeance is no different.

The night elves interact with spirits all the time- what do you think wisps are? That's necromancy whether you like it or not. Necromancy is actually a bigger part of night elf society than most. Furthermore, you can't just discount things in-game unless Blizzard themselves do so. Since we've seen nothing to say the abilities of the WCIII warden are not canon, and it's clear that Avatar of Vengeance USES THE CORPSES OF THE WARDEN'S ENEMIES (http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/units/warden.shtml), it's obviously necromantic.



The undead upset the nature of balance, which Night Elves deem one of the highest priorities in the world, something they will fight and kill to protect. A Night Elf Death Knight would be a blasphemy of the highest degree. As well, Necromancy (specifically the Necromancy granted through the Scourge) is a vein of Fel Magic that is, at its base, infused with demonic power.

There is such a thing as non-demonic necromancy, prevalent among the trolls. There's a very popular and definitely possible theory that the night elves evolved from trolls, and their religions certainly seem to mirror eachother with ancients and loa, so the simple existence of necromancy need not be "unnatural", especially when you consider the Wardens are explicitly "Secret police", meaning they're essentially above the law and given special permissions.



Now, you have every right to not follow my guide and there others out there. However, I've looked at said guides (mostly after I wrote this) and I've noticed that they are strikingly similar in the information they provide. One is on the EU forums that basically is a slightly longer winded version of my own, with a couple of points up for contention.

What you're doing, in theory, is admirable. Unfortunately, the execution is flawed, as you make too many jumps in logic and add in too many of your own theories as fact for this to be truly helpful. You give people the wrong idea of night elf society- probably because your view of the night elves is colored by WCIII. Look, night elves were my favorite race in WCIII, but the characterization of night elves has completely changed in WoW and even more so in Cata. While your statement that "night elves aren't purple humans" was definitely accurate in the WCIII era... I'm afraid it's not so accurate in the time of Cataclysm.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645




The Silverwing Sentinels are a somewhat progressive unit of the Sentinels, given that they recruited outlanders to fight for them. Every other Sentinel unit is, apparently, female.

See, this is what pisses me off about you. When people present you with information that contradicts your view of how night elves "should" be, you discount it, almost like a politician. Just like how you say that "female archdruids aren't respected and they're ambassadors" even because there's NO evidence to support that, you have NO evidence to support that the Silverwings are any more progressive than any other sentinel regimen- especially when you consider that Shandris Feathermoon, the ranger general of the sentinels and essentially their second-in-command right after Tyrande, is personally inducting WORGEN into her army, you may have to rethink the conservativism of the sentinels.



05/27/2011 02:45 PMPosted by Melyria
Again, there is a difference between being a militia or freelance warrior and being inducted into the formal, traditional military.

Freelance soldiers don't become commanders and they don't get powers from Elune. Face it, there are dudes in the sentinels, even high-up ones. As the Sex Pistols once said, "Never mind the bollocks", because the Sentinels sure as hell don't.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4985
The night elves interact with spirits all the time- what do you think wisps are? That's necromancy whether you like it or not.


So, working with spirits is necromancy... got it. We should totally rename shamans necromancers now, because, after all, they work with spirits... along with every troll. Cairne too because he was able to perceive the spirits raging around Thrall during the mission where he saves Grom....
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645
05/27/2011 06:18 PMPosted by Kyalin
The night elves interact with spirits all the time- what do you think wisps are? That's necromancy whether you like it or not.


So, working with spirits is necromancy... got it. We should totally rename shamans necromancers now, because, after all, they work with spirits... along with every troll. Cairne too because he was able to perceive the spirits raging around Thrall during the mission where he saves Grom....

Necromancy literally means "communing with the dead". "Mantia" is Latin for divination or prophesy. Yes, even Miss Cleo is a necromancer.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4985
Necromancy literally means "communing with the dead". "Mantia" is Latin for divination or prophesy. Yes, even Miss Cleo is a necromancer.


I get the distinct feeling that I've argued with one of your characters before. Regardless, here is the WoWpedia article on Necromancers: http://www.wowpedia.org/Necromancer

Now, it reads:
Necromancers are mortal practitioners of death magic, commonly referred to as necromancy. Channeling their knowledge of the arcane into manipulation of the forces of life and death

Necromancers twist arcane magic to manipulate the power of death. Commanding the undead, generally in the service of the Scourge, they gradually take on the characteristics of the dead — hollow eyes, shambling gaits, pallid and sunken skin, foul odors and so forth.


I would put special emphasis on the word "manipulate", bearing in mind as well that in Warcraft, spirits are entirely capable of speaking to people of their own accord. Cairne is not twisting arcane magic to manipulate the powers of death itself to commune with spirits, and nor are Night Elves doing so to work with wisps.
Edited by Kyalin on 5/27/2011 6:45 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645
That WoWpedia article is obviously wrong, since there are myriad non-arcane ways to raise the dead, most specifically the "holy" magic of troll voodoo or scientific/alchemical means of raising the dead.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4985
That WoWpedia article is obviously wrong, since there are myriad non-arcane ways to raise the dead, most specifically the "holy" magic of troll voodoo or scientific/alchemical means of raising the dead.


Can you show me where specifically the article claims that Necromancy is the ONLY means of raising the dead?
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645
Simple. It says necromancy is "death magic". Not "a type of magic involving death", but "death magic", as in, death magic in totality.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4985
So you interpret "death magic" to mean any form of magic that in any way involves death?
Edited by Kyalin on 5/27/2011 7:26 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645
05/27/2011 07:23 PMPosted by Kyalin
So you interpret "death magic" to mean any form of magic that in any way involves death?

I didn't, the article did. Or do you think that Death Magic also involves, say, the art of magically making pancakes?
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15 Undead Warlock
80
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=5014528
Edited by Valgus on 5/27/2011 7:37 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645
05/27/2011 07:37 PMPosted by Valgus
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=5014528

And you don't believe that ripping the souls out of corpses falls under the domain of necromancy, then?
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15 Undead Warlock
80
05/27/2011 07:44 PMPosted by Omacron
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=5014528

And you don't believe that ripping the souls out of corpses falls under the domain of necromancy, then?


No, due to the fact that they are not being used to create the walking dead. Thus, it does not fall under the Warcraft definition of Necromancy.

Fel Magic, maybe, but not Necromancy.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14645
05/27/2011 07:45 PMPosted by Valgus

And you don't believe that ripping the souls out of corpses falls under the domain of necromancy, then?


No, due to the fact that they are not being used to create the walking dead. Thus, it does not fall under the Warcraft definition of Necromancy.

Fel Magic, maybe, but not Necromancy.

The undead do not need to be corporeal, you know. Necromancy still includes the "floating" dead.
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15 Undead Warlock
80


No, due to the fact that they are not being used to create the walking dead. Thus, it does not fall under the Warcraft definition of Necromancy.

Fel Magic, maybe, but not Necromancy.

The undead do not need to be corporeal, you know. Necromancy still includes the "floating" dead.


I know. However, you did not mention doing anything with the soul. Just removing a soul from a body does not make it a Ghost/Spirit/Wraith/etc.

Just messing with a soul is not Necromancy, is what I am saying.
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