World of Warcraft®

Well, the place is pretty large, and I didn't have any intention of "claiming" it only for the Watch. Generally I assume any location in the game represents something larger with other buildings. So I don't think it's a big deal.

To my knowledge, no one uses it, but I'm sure if someone is just a bit of communication will solve the problem and it's just a good idea to spread out rp, in my humble opinion.

I'd really like to see more rp in Ironforge. It used to be bustling with activity.

I'm of the opinion you can't "claim" ingame locations--there's just not enough nifty houses, castles, meeting halls, mage towers, Argent towns, etc, fitted out for RP to go around.

That said, I don't think anyone else uses it. I'm with Genevra--welcome to the neighborhood!

No one can really "claim" anything objectively in the game in terms of geography, but we can operate with a general RPers' understanding that "This is where <insert group here> is headquartered." If a non-RPer is in the area, we obviously can't kick 'em out; if an RPer is in the area, one would hope they're respectful of an existing RP claim. Most of the time they are, unless they're one of our "fringe" RP guilds who aren't actively involved in inter-guild stories.

Cyrus and Lluchduu Ocheliad have claimed much of the land between the Scarlet Enclave and Corrin's Crossing, for example. They aren't going to get upset if someone's in the area, but if an RPer who's part of the regular inter-guild stuff shows up, it gives them a chance to make an RP claim and discourage further incursion.

I know I've claimed the immediate area around Light's Hope Chapel for the Ebon Sanction, though not exclusively since it's obviously a bastion of the Argent Crusade. It's where the Sanction has its "offices" for non-Death Knights, who story-wise wouldn't be allowed into Acherus to begin with. In terms of RP, our Death Knights operate out of the Ebon Hold above, though we obviously don't have exclusive claim on it.

That's how I see these sorts of things, at least.

I disagree. Ingame places are only yours while you are physically occupying it--otherwise it's just another random spot on the map, some NPC's abode. Anything else turns into petty territorial battles, as I can recall happening in places such as Hearthglen in the past. It can also turn into people claiming that they snuck onto so-and-so's property while that player was offline, which I've also seen, and result in dramarific ends to what could've been a good RP.

As for fringe guilds, there's a lot more out there than you may realize, and brushing them aside just because they have no knowledge of your RP, or choose not to associate with your RP circles, isn't very respectful to them. The community you think of when you see people in AOOC is not even half of the full number of RPers on Alliance--less than a quarter if you take Horde into account, too. The people who read these forums is even less than that.

Every location (except perhaps dungeons) in WoW is public, and it's not our place as players to force people out of any of them because we decided to use it in our RP for a few hours every week. To me, talk of that kind of ownership smacks more of arrogance than what RP is here for--creating fun with respects to all the different personalities in the whole RP community.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I'd really like to see more rp in Ironforge. It used to be bustling with activity.

The Horde would also be more than willing to take Ironforge off your hands.

Not only does Stormwind have more RP places than Orgrimmar, Ironforge is a gold mine of empty buildings and neat little nooks and crannies.

/jealous

07/26/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Gentyl

Well, the place is pretty large, and I didn't have any intention of "claiming" it only for the Watch. Generally I assume any location in the game represents something larger with other buildings. So I don't think it's a big deal.

To my knowledge, no one uses it, but I'm sure if someone is just a bit of communication will solve the problem and it's just a good idea to spread out rp, in my humble opinion.

I'd really like to see more rp in Ironforge. It used to be bustling with activity.

You're right, it did. That resulted in my Paladin being pitched into that damned pit more often than I could count because all of the auction house activity turned the city into a slideshow. >.<

The linked auction houses gutted Ironforge's population as most everyone moved to Stormwind. They've stayed there every since (with two-year migrations each to Shattrath and Dalaran, of course).

I know it's remote, but Exodar is far too beautiful of a city not to be used. I'm happy the Worgens of the Night are making use of present-day Gilneas.

I'm happy the Worgens of the Night are making use of present-day Gilneas.

That's also neat, but I see problems 'claiming' parts of Gilneas, too.

As it's a war, an ongoing one, it's hard to say which side is winning - infact, the last we saw, Sylvanas forced a Worgen retreat. (Unless I'm missing something post-that from a book)

As such, it's sort of hard to say a building 'belongs' to a person, when it could just as easily be used by someone else - especially someone of the opposite faction.

Easier to just say it's an ingame stand-in, I think - otherwise I think most everyone on most RP servers has broken into the manor at some point.

Arothand, last I knew of it lore-wise, Gilneas remains contested territory. The Forsaken forced an initial evacuation of the worgen just after the Cataclysm hit, and Alliance forces forced the Forsaken out of Gilneas itself, where they hunkered down behind fortifications on the Silverpine side of the Greymane Wall. Sylvanas encountered some momentary difficulties when she was slain by Lord Crowley before being returned to life by one of her val'kyr. The battleground "Battle for Gilneas" is meant to approximate the current struggle over Gilneas itself that the Alliance and Horde are undergoing; this also, sadly, tells me that since it's a battleground so predicated on story (and since resolution would require a major overhaul one way or the other of the Forsaken storylines in the Silverpine Forest quest chains), the Alliance is unlikely to ever recover Gilneas.

It took Blizzard 6 years to get the gnomes out of Ironforge. I don't think we're ever going to see a point now where King Greymane isn't hanging out in Stormwind Keep's throneroom, and the remainder of the worgen are hunkering down as refugees in that tree in Darnassus. :(

07/26/2012 12:37 AMPosted by Arothand

Does this -include- members of the Horde?

Honestly, Orwyn only cares whether any race breaks the law while they're in the kingdom. Until the Alliance and Horde are officially at war, that's his entire concern.

Still, due to game mechanics and the general apprehension many Alliance members have towards the Horde, I don't think it makes sense to allow them to be roaming at will through Stormwind's territory either. So as a compromise, we let Horde members stay if they can show "written" permission from the king or designated underling to enter the kingdom. Whether they have it or not is basically an OOC matter that we work out. Otherwise we politely but firmly remove them from the kingdom. It hasn't come up more than a couple of times, but it's worked all right so far. In practical terms, if you have a good RP reason for having a pass, the Watch will accept it and treat you like any other law-abiding citizen - as long as you are.

I had been thinking of the focus as being on RP as opposed to RPPvP. I'm wary of mixing RP and PvP mechanics in general, but that's just me, and I'm not the boss of Stonewatch.

Every location (except perhaps dungeons) in WoW is public, and it's not our place as players to force people out of any of them because we decided to use it in our RP for a few hours every week. To me, talk of that kind of ownership smacks more of arrogance than what RP is here for--creating fun with respects to all the different personalities in the whole RP community.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

This. Especially when the location is actually used for something else in game lore and may be needed to represent what it *really* is by other RPers.

I totally agree with what Lahkin says here. This has always been a peeve of mine with the RP community. While lamentable we can't have private housing (why Blizzard doesn't see this as something players really want, I will never know), that doesn't give any license to make public locations claimable. All this is going to accomplish in the end is petty territorial squabbles.

You have to learn to share them, which means both parties must make concessions/be understanding of each other. There is no such thing as "I was here first therefore it is mine". If we were playing that game, I'd out-senior most of you.

Genevra's house, for instance, was where we used to host tavern nights with an old Alliance guild of mine, long before there was any Conclave. Would anyone actually respect my claim to it if those people returned and we decided to start them up again? I sincerely doubt it. But hopefully, if we were reasonable beings, we could come to an agreement as to which times would be acceptable to hold our parties there.

Masquerade uses Keeshan's Post to park its caravan; Terra uses Aerie Peak as its base with "cooperation" from the Wildhammer (including a player-based dwarf guild); Lahkin and Erelyn's "house" across the valley has been used as a neighboring house for other RP purposes. WoW has *terribly* constricting mechanics where both, housing and RP are concerned, but with a little imagination and a lot of cooperation, it's really elementary and NOT THAT HARD to share.

<also steps off soap box; folds it up, tucks in pocket, and trundles away>

I think there's an assumption of common courtesy here (or at least I make one). Using Jyocses' example, if they were to use the house that Narnicka & Genevra use as "theirs" in RP, if no one else were around, I don't think anyone would say anything, and if Genevra and Narn arrived while something else is going on, I'll make the guess that they'd ask what was happening, and politely bow out and do something else til the property was available again.

Using my earlier example of Cyrus and Lluchduu Ocheliad laying claim to the land between Corrin's Crossing and the Scarlet Enclave, I don't see anyone from LO arriving on the scene and attempting to cause drama if they found others RPing in the area; if someone was doing RP directly involving LO, however, I think it would be reasonable for them to be informed IC at that point that the land belongs to LO; they can either depart, ignore it IC (which would be kind of a selfish thing to do, to be honest, if they were otherwise attempting to RP with LO), or attempt to start some RP violence to lay claim to the land.

It's why I personally have been as judicious as I have about how I'm staking out the Ebon Sanction's headquarters. As Death Knights, we operate out of Acherus. For the non-Death Knights who will be part of our order, they operate out of "offices" in Light's Hope Chapel, as it's the closest proximity to the Ebon Hold that also has some active lore-based history with Acherus. Likewise, however, I say that we're present by the good will of the Argent Crusade, because in terms of "official" lore, Tirion's people own that plot of land right now. They're "allowing" the Ebon Sanction to have offices in the chapel to facilitate meetings that involve those who aren't Death Knights, since only Death Knights would be allowed into Acherus.

I've yet to see someone stake such an official claim to an area in the game that they actively try to chase other players off.

Uhm...I try to chase people off the hill on Horde Lounge night if they move in on 'my' spot when I get up for a moment. Does that count? ;)

Oh, and Ragepants, need to chat with you at some point. *sage nod*

I'll be on tonight some time after 5:00pm realm time, Bhayne; I'll hop on a Horde alt to see if you're on, and we'll have a chat.

I've yet to see someone stake such an official claim to an area in the game that they actively try to chase other players off.

I only wish I could say the same thing, Rage.

07/26/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Ragefang

I'll be on tonight some time after 5:00pm realm time, Bhayne; I'll hop on a Horde alt to see if you're on, and we'll have a chat.

It's fishing night! :) I'll be on.

I've yet to see someone stake such an official claim to an area in the game that they actively try to chase other players off.

I only wish I could say the same thing, Rage.

Let 'em try to chase someone off. That's what filing griefing reports are for; it isn't like they can actually do something to force someone out, unless it's opposing factions who are flagged and have an ability to enforce (or attempt to) their desires. :)

It again comes down to respect; if you come into an area that you've claimed IC, and you see someone else doing something there, you just let them be. If they're RPing but have no current ongoing stories with your RP crew who's "claimed" the area, you just be polite and leave til they're done. If they're involved in RP with you otherwise, you may have good reason to initiate some RP to find out why they're there.

It's typically why RP that isn't facilitate by actual game mechanics (like cross-faction fighting via PvP flagging) should usually be worked out ahead of time. If it isn't, you have people standing there blustering at each other with no real ability to take the RP anywhere. Inevitably, someone winds up having to godmode their way out of things just so they can keep doing what they were there to do, which doesn't work well for anyone.

Communication and respect. We're all one large RP community who should make every effort to be friendly OOC so we all have people to RP with IC. Ragefang might not be terribly fond of most Hordies (at least those who aren't Death Knights...) IC, but OOC I've only met two or three players who I wouldn't want anything to do with when I poke my head out of the sand Horde-side. The rest I'm happy to play the game with. :)

Then you run into the same problem, but with RPers, if you say you use -the- ingame location, and you don't just use it as a stand-in. Same example, Fenris, I believe that the Modas had been using for some time? So both of them saying they use the very Fenris that exists in-game led to some... comical, silly mental images of them drawing a line through the center of the castle, and fighting over furniture - when, probably, the Worgen of the Night would just chew on the furniture.

Fixed it for ya, Aro! ;)

I'm basically of the agreement that you can't really claim something if you're not there to claim it. This even applies to activities like posting guards at Uther's Tomb. After all, if there's a guard there, someone is there to 'claim' it. Generally, I never have an issue with this, for which I am thankful. The Phlogiston Brotherhood officially has their charter with Dalaran and has an imaginary guild hall there. As such...other places are borrowed. The Brotherhood has a small office in the Dwarven District of Stormwind City. It also uses the dead smithy outside the walls of Caer Darrow on the Isle of Darrow, which it never gave up when the AAMS relocated. Due to the size and current active roster, not many guild activities take place there, but I may change that someday.

If someone else wants to use the island or something, I wouldn't mind knowing about it of course, but I don't think I'd be terribly offended. Galahn certainly wouldn't be. He's almost Dudeist in philosophy.

07/26/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Orwyn

Does this -include- members of the Horde?

Honestly, Orwyn only cares whether any race breaks the law while they're in the kingdom. Until the Alliance and Horde are officially at war, that's his entire concern.

Given that, the AAMS would be happy to occasionally drop by with some diplomatically-inclined Horde RPers, if you like. Visiting envoy sort of thing. I don't think I can promise to have a translator out there all the time or anything, but if the Watch is interested in being open to visits, the AAMS can certainly help set a few up.

If folks will be flagged when they're hanging out in the Keep I can add it to my circuit of "small Alliance targets near Stormwind to periodically harass" -- always more fun to fight other roleplayers rather than just NPCs and guards.

If it's mostly going to be used for quiet chat and Horde interruptions wouldn't be appreciated, that's fine too. I just know I'm out in that area poking WorldDefense reasonably regularly, and I never mind some more adversaries!

Fight me. <3

If I see you I'm sure I shall!

I swear three-quarters of the defenders who show up whenever I do drop by are rogues anyway. You'll fit right in.

It again comes down to respect; if you come into an area that you've claimed IC, and you see someone else doing something there, you just let them be. If they're RPing but have no current ongoing stories with your RP crew who's "claimed" the area, you just be polite and leave til they're done. If they're involved in RP with you otherwise, you may have good reason to initiate some RP to find out why they're there.

This is more or less what I meant, and I agree with. If someone's already RPing in an area, and there's not a very feasible way to tie our two RPs into each other, I'll go find somewhere else for my RP until they've left. I don't consider them intruders or anything--as far as Lahkin would be concerned, he had an absent-minded moment and wandered into the wrong house.

Though depending on the case, even just RPing "around" each other works. If towns in WoW have any similar scaling to RL ones, a "town" of three houses would really be a town of 300 houses. Being next door neighbors in the game space could mean you're actually several lanes on down the road in IC space. It reminds me of a time my friend described to me--her RPer group was (I believe) chatting by the fire, while in the meantime some other RPer group was racing up and down the stairs screaming about something. Not paying any attention ICly to each other or taking offense to each others' OOC presence, but still occupying the same ingame building. Makes me giggle to picture it.

This being a highly representative world, with no ability to build our own things, sharing and imagination is part of the package.

(And I hope I didn't derail your thread too badly, O man!)